Open water ..

[BlueTrin]

So sorry to hear that. I strongly advise divers to seek out instructors who do not teach skills on the knees. Ever.

I see what you mean, to be honest with you I think my buoyancy control was so bad when I passed my OW that I would have struggled to stay in front of my instructor. And I think most of the people I have seen passing their OW are similar and overweighted during the test.

Also I think we did the skill twice: one time on the platform on the knees and one time at 10m not on the knees but my memory is hazy.

I remember that even though we were not on the knees I was almost against the platform rather than floating though.

 

[boulderjohn]

And I think most of the people I have seen passing their OW are similar and overweighted during the test.

You have to be significantly overweighted to do skills while planted on the knees. It cannot be done if you are properly weighted.

I have had to conduct OW dives with students next to a PVC platform countless times. You simply make sure they are floating in horizontal trim while doing the skills. You hold on to their SPG while they are doing the skills so they don't float away and so you are not controlling their buoyancy.

 

[BlueTrin]

You have to be significantly overweighted to do skills while planted on the knees. It cannot be done if you are properly weighted.

I have had to conduct OW dives with students next to a PVC platform countless times. You simply make sure they are floating in horizontal trim while doing the skills. You hold on to their SPG while they are doing the skills so they don't float away and so you are not controlling their buoyancy.

That sounds like the right way to do it.

I remember being given 10kg when I was doing OW in a lake, using a rental 7mm.

During my holiday I did a weight check and we got to 3-4kg in sea water and I was fine with a new 5mm I bought.

I am 90kg but fairly lean so I think they assumed that I would need a lot of weight.

 

[DanielRJones]

So sorry to hear that. I strongly advise divers to seek out instructors who do not teach skills on the knees. Ever.

Boulderjohn
There are many people who train at ndac from all the bsac clubs in the area and about 10 padi centers and alot of other agencies also as it is the National dive center.
I have seen people train in trim or on their knees and also seen alot of things that have scared me

I agree to pick out an instructor that teaches the way you want to learn

 

[BlueTrin]

Boulderjohn
There are many people who train at ndac from all the bsac clubs in the area and about 10 padi centers and alot of other agencies also as it is the National dive center.
I have seen people train in trim or on their knees and also seen alot of things that have scared me

I agree to pick out an instructor that teaches the way you want to learn

While I agree with both of you, I think when you are learning you don’t know how the instructor will teach you before you get there. In my case I didn’t even know who would be the instructor in the school for my day.

I have only 20 dives but I think I learned more outside of the PADI certifications than during the AOW or OW. I went to Malta and Plymouth to get some more experience and in both cases I could get into a smaller group (1 instructor/guide for two divers) and they were willing to spend more time with me to complete my ‘learning’ than during my OW or AOW.

 

[60plus]

The 18m limit is applied as a firm rule by quite a number (but not all) dive clubs and dive centers in UK and Europe. My local dive club will not permit divers to go on dives that are deeper than their certification. The dive centers I use on Lanzarote and Portugal are the same. However there are 2 dive centers on Madeira that do allow you on dives deeper than your certification. There is another potential problem if you exceed your certification depth, your diving insurance is invalid.

 

[boulderjohn]

There is another potential problem if you exceed your certification depth, your diving insurance is invalid.

Which insurance is that?

 

[TMHeimer]

You have to be significantly overweighted to do skills while planted on the knees. It cannot be done if you are properly weighted.

I have had to conduct OW dives with students next to a PVC platform countless times. You simply make sure they are floating in horizontal trim while doing the skills. You hold on to their SPG while they are doing the skills so they don't float away and so you are not controlling their buoyancy.

While I do now agree to a point that teaching neutrally is better (an old SB discussion), not sure about having to be significantly overweighted to do skills on knees. Personally, I had to do them one foot out and one foot back, as back then in OW course the knees thing gave me instant cramps. I digress. Though it's not as good as neutral, I was able to do all the skills myself in OW while planted, and as a DM, observed the same with students. I would think being properly weighted and maybe totally deflating BCD would allow you to do skills while planted.

Agree with BlueTrin about new students not knowing which is the best way they will learn scuba, and often won't know who their instructor is, nor have any choice. Guess that varies a lot. At our shop it was not the norm, but not uncommon for one instructor to do pool and another the OW checkout dives.

 

[DanielRJones]

Which insurance is that?

DAN Europe covers the following
Compressed Air and Nitrox. 40 meter max (only for DAN Sport Bronze).

Recreational Diving
Recreational Diving means all snorkelling, and recreational Diving Activities carried out by the Insured as stated in the Schedule or Certificate attached to this Policy with or without breathing apparatus whether as a student or not including:

• Compressed air diving in any form
  
• Enriched air “nitrox” diving with fixed percentages with an open circuit or a “rebreather”
  
• The use of oxygen enriched air or of oxygen to maximize decompression safety
  
• The use of normoxic “Trimix” mixtures at depths less than 50m to minimize the narcotic effects of compressed air.

DAN Europe recommends gas partial pressures up to a maximum of 1,6ATA Oxygen and 5,6ATA Nitrogen in the breathing mixture.

Technical Diving
Technical Diving means dives conducted with the use of variable gas mixtures (Nitrogen-Helium-Oxygen otherwise called Trimix or Helium – Oxygen otherwise called Heliox) up to depths not exceeding 130 metres and/or gas partial pressures of 1,4 ATA Oxygen or up to a maximum of 1,6ATA Oxygen and 3,95ATA Nitrogen in the breathing mixture, and provided that any other relevant local laws and regulations are respected. On written submission of a full dive profile and proposed safety and support measures insurers may consider providing specific per dive insurance for any dive exceeding 130 metres.

On reading through the terms and conditions it mentions nothing about diving within your certification level but i may have missed that bit.

Alot of the other travel insurance that covers diving only covers to 30m or your cert level if it is less

 

[boulderjohn]

On reading through the terms and conditions it mentions nothing about diving within your certification level but i may have missed that bit.

That is the point I was challenging. I don't know of any that do that.