"Open Water Diver Safe Cavern Dives" ???

[yarik83]

Blue grotto has been for sale for a really long time. They are asking 2 million dollars. They tried to get a contract with water bottling place and that fell through and owner says he is tired and wants to retire.

 

[mdax]

I don't believe there are open water "safe" caverns. I'd encourage my daughter to take a cavern course if she ever wanted to venture in, and would give that advice to others who ask.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Recently there was quite a bit of traffic on the forums regarding caverns safe at Open Water cert level. The normal caverns got mentioned like Blue Grotto, Devil's Den, Ginnie's Ballroom, Paradise, etc., etc.,

Since I became an instructor it has been my standpoint that proper training is needed regardless of how "safe" these caverns appear to be. In my opinion an overhead environment is an overhead environment, regardless of your perceived risk. That environment demands training. Or at least it should.

So with that said, something happened yesterday at Ginnie Ballroom that really added weight to my above argument. Visibility in the ballroom went to 5'. In a room that is normally 200'+ vis, you could not see the steel grate sitting next to it. If you were 5' from the permanent rope, chances are you weren't seeing it. And most importantly, you couldn't immediately determine which direction was out. The entire room was a milky cloudy white color. Buddies went from great vis where they could see across the room at each other to not being able to find each other 10' apart.

What does this tell us? In my opinion, these caverns might not be "open water safe". It's good luck that the divers in the ballroom yesterday were proficient and comfortable, but how many people would have been in peril if they went from 200' vis to 5' vis within minutes in an unfamiliar cavern where you couldn't immediately find the exit.

Stay safe.

One of the arguments I hear for the Ginnie Ballroom being "safe" for OW divers is that there is enough flow to essentially blow a diver out in a few minutes, even if there is no viz. I'm interested in your thoughts on the validity of that argument.

My concern is that I've heard that same argument used by divers who don't see the need for a line to OW in the Eye at Ginnie, Little River, etc. It occurs to me that if there is a flaw in the argument as it relates to the Ballroom, we ought to at least consider the flaws in the "flow will blow me out from the gold line" argument in caverns where cave divers frequently decide not to run a line.

As an aside, my full cave instructor described events several years ago where it was proposed to move the gold line much farther back in the gallery to prevent OW divers from following it in. But he objected based on the argument that it would be very difficult to exit with zero viz and no line - as those involved admitted many cave divers would still dive Ginnie without a primary reel. In the end it was put to the test with black out masks and attempted exits from back in the gallery and the point was made that exiting under those conditions sounded a lot easier than it really was, so the line is still where it is.

 

[PfcAJ]

I think that argument is pretty weak. Scared divers don't stay still to let the flow move you out, or let the silt settle, or calm down, etc.

Personally, I believe that all lines should go to OW. If we (cave divers) are going to run a primary at popular sites, what's to stop an OW diver from following that line in? So a white line (or 5) isn't followable, but a goldline is? That doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

[billgraham]

Well, we had one fatality of an open water diver last weekend, and a near miss with another this week. I think we should re-examine the "convention" of open water divers in the cavern zone. While it might be fine at places like Orange Grove or JB, it leads to a false sense of security and sooner or later they'll end up in situations they have no training to deal with.

 

[JamesK]

Well, we had one fatality of an open water diver last weekend, and a near miss with another this week. I think we should re-examine the "convention" of open water divers in the cavern zone. While it might be fine at places like Orange Grove or JB, it leads to a false sense of security and sooner or later they'll end up in situations they have no training to deal with.

That is one of my biggest complaints about "OW Caverns" It lulls those in to a false sense of security when they see another cavern. They think "Heck, I did Ginnie Ball Room, hat makes this cavern different?" Then they go in and find out. Scary.

 

[billgraham]

I think that argument is pretty weak. Scared divers don't stay still to let the flow move you out, or let the silt settle, or calm down, etc.

Personally, I believe that all lines should go to OW. If we (cave divers) are going to run a primary at popular sites, what's to stop an OW diver from following that line in? So a white line (or 5) isn't followable, but a goldline is? That doesn't make a lick of sense.

It is a good thing that the mainline basically goes into open water in the cavern that was the site of incident # 2 or the ending might well have been different.

 

[ianr33]

It is a good thing that the mainline basically goes into open water in the cavern that was the site of incident # 2 or the ending might well have been different.

Yep. The line in Twin is a nice,thick,goldline that ends about a foot away from open water. Even with that in place this OW diver is really lucky to be alive.

 

[billgraham]

Yep. The line in Twin is a nice,thick,goldline that ends about a foot away from open water. Even with that in place this OW diver is really lucky to be alive.

When I first started diving there, the line was way back in the cavern and not so easy to locate if you weren't really familiar with it. Good thing Edd moved it to the entrance. *whew.

 

[PfcAJ]

Well, we had one fatality of an open water diver last weekend, and a near miss with another this week. I think we should re-examine the "convention" of open water divers in the cavern zone. While it might be fine at places like Orange Grove or JB, it leads to a false sense of security and sooner or later they'll end up in situations they have no training to deal with.

For sure. OG is an accident waiting to happen...