OOA Buddy starts to drag you up by your octo - What would you do?

[captain]

Cut his hose, oh wait that's my hose, never mind.

 

[theatis]

Well, here's the perpective of someone fresh out of a Rescue course where these scenaria were simulated. It seems to me that the most important thing of all is getting behind the panicked diver because it gives you the highest likelihood of controlling the situation and the least likelihood of the panicked diver having a physical effect on you.

Also, barring the diver actually having air and using it for inflation (like the scenario that Bob described where the diver can air-accelerate both of you to the surface) you also have another tactic available which is rotating the diver to a more horizontal position by pulling on the valve, so that their efforts to swim upwards are less effective in terms of drag, weight, and orientation.

 

[Footslogger]

A humble question from a newb to a veteran:
I wonder if asking about the wisdom of going to 125 ft with someone you didn't know is a more important question at this stage than asking about whether or not you would do the same thing under the same circumstances. You know, ounce of prevention type thing.

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Excellent question. That particular diver was AOW certified and had a thick logbook ...so I did not think that experience was going to be an issue. We were both gathering fish for our marine aquariums. He got careless and sucked his tank dry. Guess it could happen to anyone. Not sure I could have "prevented" what happened that day in retrospect.

That said, I do not dive with anyone I don't know any more. My wife is my dive buddy and if she decides to skip a dive I dive solo.

I also don't make 125' dives any more. I collect fish pictures now instead of fish and rarely dive below 60 feet, a depth from which both my wife and I can make a free ascent.

 

[Web Monkey]

A humble question from a newb to a veteran:
I wonder if asking about the wisdom of going to 125 ft with someone you didn't know is a more important question at this stage than asking about whether or not you would do the same thing under the same circumstances. You know, ounce of prevention type thing.

It's not always your buddy that's OOA. In fact, if you choose buddies carefully, it probably won't be your buddy. You never know who's going to be OOA.

Terry

 

[Puffer Fish]

Blame it on my original training back in 1971, but I was taught to deal with underwater things underwater. My original post might have seemed a bit turse, but I too have experienced this type of thing. It was years ago and I was diving with someone I did not know. We were at 125 feet and he grabbed my octo and started to pull hard for the surface. I yanked back on the octo hose and got his attention. I swam over to him (one kick stroke), looked him right in the eye and put one hand on his shoulder. With my other hand I grabbed the octo second stage, put it back in his mouth and purged. At that point I gave him the "going up" sign, got his OK and we surfaced together, with me holding on to his shoulder straps all the way, doing most of the kicking and managing our buoyancy. It is something I hope I never again experience.

Was that the best way ...or the way that is taught nowadays ?? Dunno, but if faced with the same decision tomorrow I'd likely attempt that first before just giving in and rocketing toward the surface under tow.

I have to say, this thread almost took a turn to the dark side...but then this....

Been though the same sort of thing, only it was not my dive buddy. Actually been through several, all slightly different.

Things I have learned:

1. The donate concept is silly. Expect someone to grap your primary. The "May I please have a small breath of your air, when you happen to get around to it" never happens.

2. If I could have a 12 inch primary, I would, because you want that person right in front of you - the closer the better.

3. Grab a hold of a good strap and hold on tight.

4. Think slow, think go up slow...from the start. Dump air, cut bag, kick in the down direction.... pull off their fins... do what you have to.

5. Don't know the person.... carry a pony and be prepared to have it be your friend.

6. Assuming you make it to the surface, stay behind the person or get away from them... you are still in danger.

Oh, and one other thing... how does one run out of air in the first place? Ok, something broke, I can understand that.. "I forgot" If you can forget air, you should not be underwater.

 

[darkpup]

My thinking is:

Why roll the dice on a CESA when its not necessary if the OOA situation is resolved? At this point, it is panic that is inducing the CESA, and not an OOA situation. By all rights, we should be able to make a normal safe ascent.

Last time I checked, the C in CESA stood for "Controlled." Although I've never experienced one, I wouldn't think there would be much Control in a panicked diver. Thus my fear of breaching the surface from 100 ft in like 5 seconds, being dragged up by said panicked diver.

No thanks. If I can help it, I'd prefer not to take that ride.

But the reverse of this is that you choose to dive with someone you're unsure of, with the knowledge that you will ditch them if they head to the surface in a manner you don't agree with. So let's say this happens, your buddy freaks, grabs your reg, and decides to head to the surface. You somehow get away from them, and avoid the uncontrolled ascent.

What do you do then?

I would argue that there's a big difference between ditching your buddy and heading to the surface as quickly as possible to insure they don't drown. Even a 30' per minute ascent would be too slow in my opinion. Unfortunately, no where in your aggressive argument describing why you'd let them go, do you describe what you'd do after they shot to the surface. I would hope you'd at least attempt to slow down their ascent before ditching them from the get go.

Regardless of all this, I'm still not sure why you would do the dive in the first place. I personally will not do 100' dives with people I'm A) not willing to ride to the surface with, and B) not confident in their abilities to not only save them self but me if things get out of hand.

~ Jason

 

[Dan Gibson]

My 7 ft hose makes it easier for me to pinch the hose and cut off your air supply as you bolt for the surface screaming like a little girl. :mooner:

This is exactly why the seven foot long hose is WRONG.
N, militantly non-dir

 

[Tigerman]

I just had this horrible thought:

Lets say we are down around 100 ft and my buddy goes OOA. Of course, I donate my octo, and he accepts. My buddy then proceeds to abandon all training, and with a BC full of air, decides its time to start rocketing to the surface - dragging me along behind him. What do you do?

If i cant get control of him FAST.. slap him in the face, yank out the octo from his mouth and hands and wave byebye?

 

[Footslogger]

Oh, and one other thing... how does one run out of air in the first place? Ok, something broke, I can understand that.. "I forgot" If you can forget air, you should not be underwater.

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All excellent points ...but in the interest of full disclosure, I actually was the OOA diver once (and that's all it took ...ONCE). It was in the olden days of the J valve with the pull wire along side the tank and we didn't dive with octopus rigs or spare-air back then. Somehow between the surface and the bottom the valve had gotten activated (probably on entry). After a bit of diving at 100' + I checked my SPG and it was at (or about) 500 PSI so I decided to pull the wire and realized that it had already been activated. A couple breaths later I was pretty much OOA and had to make a "whistling" ascent. I was wearing an old CO2 cartridge horse collar (BCD's were pretty new back then) and it was empty so toking off the inflator valve wasn't an option. I broke the surface like a Trident Sub on a full combat ascent ...and lived to tell the story.

Where was my buddy, you may ask ?? He had signalled to me that he was headed up about a minute or two before I realized my situation. I could see him above me as I started upwards but by then I was hell bent to get to the surface and reaching him and asking him to donate his primary wasn't my first thought.

This may not be totally on-topic but the point is (and someone mentioned this in an earlier post) that sometimes YOU are the OOA diver and it is due to cirmcumstances beyond your control (well ...almost). FWIW ...I never dove a J valve set-up again and I now head back to the boat when the gauge reads 1000 PSI.

This was about 30 years ago and I had well over 200 dives without incident.

 

[in_cavediver]

I just had this horrible thought:

Lets say we are down around 100 ft and my buddy goes OOA. Of course, I donate my octo, and he accepts. My buddy then proceeds to abandon all training, and with a BC full of air, decides its time to start rocketing to the surface - dragging me along behind him. What do you do?

I may be evil, mean spirited or callous but unless my buddy was my wife, and I couldn't easily control the situation, they would take a solo ride. I would ascend as quickly as I felt was safe for me. At this point, my buddy is already in a bad way and I personally don't want to be looking for the second chamber for treatment.

To get to this point, many things have already failed and the risk reward simply isn't there. One injured - One OK but late is better than 2 injured together. Protect the rescuer first. The protect the victim.