Online Sales - The importance of buying from local businesses

[fireflock]

Part of the customer reaction to the high markup is that it's pitched as some sort of nebulous value proposition where if we (customers) pay more now, we'll really appreciate it later when we need xyz from the local shop.

The dive business is full of odd mores that the customer is supposed to decipher, embrace, and follow. For the most part they boil down to - 'pay too much for gear to make up for all the stuff we provide without charging a fair price'. When customers don't play along, either because they don't yet understand _or_ because they understand too well, then you get a rant like the one that started this thread.

The average dive shop is a weird, weird, place when it comes to what the retailer expects from the customer. People get confused and don't really care for it. I think that's where some of the backlash comes from. Customers get the impression that they are being asked to pay for some future benefit that they don't want or need.

Most customers don't know enough about your costs to complain that your markup is too high. I know those are the terms they use, but what they are really trying to say is that they don't understand why they can buy the same product for much less from someone else.

Rich

 

[redacted]

The endless debate goes on......I agree with Phil, most other products have alot more markup and nobody balks at them....Why shouldnt dive retailers make money on what they do....What do you do? Lawers? Bankers? Real Estate? Wall Street? Everyone makes money doing what they do, its part of life....Why cant a Dive Retailer make money too? Im not talking about ripping people off and taking all of their money, Im talking about working hard for that sale, working hard to have the product in stock to make the sale, working hard to be knowledgeable to know what your talking about to make the sale, there is alot that goes into just one sale and staying competitive with your competition


Yes, alot of dive shops rip people off on pricing and they will suffer, but to tell us that we shouldnt be able to mark up items so you can save money for your vacation isnt right...what about our vacation? Yes, you do pay for my vacations, and my gas, and my house, and my clothes, and my food and even my dogs food. Thats why Im in business, so I can afford to buy things and survive....

Mike - I think your business model is on the customer friendly side of this BUT when is it just making money and when is it ripping off customers?

I don't begrudge any business owner a good living and a vacation. (I'm sure you have always happily payed your taxes so I could be payed my salary.) It's OK with me if he can afford to vacation 50 weeks a year. But when one shops will sell me a Scubapro Mk20/S600 (a few years ago) for about $600 and another (internet) will sell me that same reg for $350, guess which one I'm willing the help enjoy a vacation.

BTW, I see little value in conditional warranties and the similar parts for life programs so I'm not willing to pay much, if anything, for them in the form of inflated prices and in the form of charges for unnecessary service.

 

[ReefHound]

Part of the customer reaction to the high markup is that it's pitched as some sort of nebulous value proposition where if we (customers) pay more now, we'll really appreciate it later when we need xyz from the local shop.

I agree. I'm indifferent if someone quotes me a highball price that is 50% more than I can get online, but I'm going to get adversarial if they try to tell me it's for my own good and really cheaper in the long run when I believe otherwise.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

I agree completely AWAP!!! Ripping off is out of hand. You wont believe how many times I go into local shops that charge OVER MSRP.....Its outrageous. Thats why we opened...we are divers too....Competition is a must and most LDS's are not willing to change and they are losing the battle.....Good thing for us is that we are new and not set in our old ways and I love to help people out...Karma is a good thing

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

Its fun to see alot of the same faces on this same old thread.....We can never let this one go can we guys I always try to stay away, but get sucked in...Always a pleasure talking with you guys (you know who you are)

 

[froggs]

Well, climbing and mountaineering in the United States will do more dollar volume (Leisure Trends data) in retail sales in 2008 than scuba diving will do in the United States from now until 2012.....it is about 5 times larger than scuba diving. The distribution system for climbing and mountaineering gear is completely different from scuba......the former uses distributors or brokers; scuba is "direct from the manufacturer" distribution. This is very expensive for scuba.

Climbing and mountaineering retail shops have an opportunity to make sales to "casual" participants because of the very low entry cost. Scuba has no such opportunity. The entry cost is very high.

Most interesting. According to Leisure Trends, average retail gross profit margin for climbing and mountaineering supplies is about 64%.....for scuba the average is 41%.

Note on the Issue of Loyality: There may be some loyality in climbing and mountaineering gear to retailers. Any mass loyality that existed for scuba retailers is fast doing a nose dive. I guess we have brought it on ourselves. In the end, price ALWAYS wins out, assuming a comparable quality, service, and delivery. The very few exceptions to that involve extremely expensive, niche markets by companies with big bucks for advertising. Scuba spends next to nothing advertising.

Phil Ellis

Interesting figures. I'd have to assume that it's the clothing aspect that forces the climbing sales figures thru the roof. When I was initially thinking about it, I didn't consider how large that aspect of the industry is. I really don't even consider the majority of these types of clothing goods part of the climbing industry, but I suppose that's another issue.

Regardless, as others have mentioned, I really don't put much thought into what the profit margins are for most my purchases. Why? Well, reasonably competitive pricing across the board eliminates the need for me to think about it. This applies to almost everything I buy. However, when I know someone else can offer the same product for 50% less, then I'm forced to think about how much I'm getting screwed. Not a pleasant thought...especially with larger purchases!!!

 

[jpsexton]

The a__holes who go into an LDS and take up a bunch of time looking at product(s) knowing that for a few % less they are going to purchase on line, well, I think that's sad - but if you are in retail - retail being the operative word - you are going to deal with jerks from time to time

I think this argument just brings out the entitlement attitude that makes most customers mad and drives them to online retailers. These "a__holes" have come into a retail business with an obvious interest in some product. It is then the retailers JOB to make the sale. If he walks out of the store and buys it online then the retailer failed at his job. How does that make the potential customer an "a__hole"?

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

The a__holes who go into an LDS and take up a bunch of time looking at product(s) knowing that for a few % less they are going to purchase on line, well, I think that's sad - but if you are in retail - retail being the operative word - you are going to deal with jerks from time to time - don't get into the business if you can't take it, or get out of the business if it bothers you that much.

WHAT WOULD JUPITER DO???

After much reading on Scuba Board, I decided to purchase a 2nd pair of fins. I had already purchased two pairs of fins from my LDS, some cheap full foots and a pair of Scuba Pro Twin jets with a set of springs. I decided after much reading here that I wanted a pair of Scuba Pro jet fins.

I priced them out first on LP. I went to the LDS knowing the MSRP and the LP prices. I asked if they had them in stock, they pointed high up on the wall to them, but told me I did not want them. That they would be like strapping a board to my feet and that I wouldn't like them. I said I wanted to see them. They pointed to the big hook thingy and I got them down myself and tried them on myself. Then I asked the price. I was more than MSRP. So I ask if that is the best they can do for me. They then say they will give me 10% off which brings them down to MSRP. I say ok.

Since he told me that I wouldn't like them and gave me a price that was almost twice what LP was selling them for. I took his advice and did not purchase them from the LDS. I called LP and he did not discourage my purchase and gave me a good price without me having to beg.

By the way, I really like the jet fins and have switched over all of my diving to them. I did see a cave video where the guy had bright yellow jets. I want that guys fins! Mine are black. I would purchase another pair if I could get them in yellow!

Jupiter, am I a bad person? Would you have begged the LDS to sell them to you and also paid twice to the LDS what you could have paid elsewhere?

 

[redacted]

I think this argument just brings out the entitlement attitude that makes most customers mad and drives them to online retailers. These "a__holes" have come into a retail business with an obvious interest in some product. It is then the retailers JOB to make the sale. If he walks out of the store and buys it online then the retailer failed at his job. How does that make the potential customer an "a__hole"?

One problem, and it is the shops own fault, is divers will go to the local fitting room for some hands on shopping and never give the store a real chance because they are certain no good will come of it. With the exception of the online guys who advertise they will price match, I've never seen an LDS give much indication they are willing to compete.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I can see that now.

1.) Customer carries tank into Walmart.

2.) Customer has to stop and get the walmart smile face sticker on your tank to prove it's your before you can carry it into the store. They are out of stickers. Employee pages asst mgr on phone for more stickers. Employee pages asst mgr 3 more times. Finally you get your smiley face sticker.

3.) Customer carries tank back to sporting goods.

4.) Sporting goods employee at counter is no where to be found.

5.) Customer walks over to nearby Auto Service counter to have Sporting Goods employee paged. They page him 3 more times before he shows back up. But he can't fill the tank. He has to find another employee

6.) Other employee is paged 3 times

7.) Other employee finally shows up 15 minute later to fill the tank.

8.) Employee goes to fill up tank, but doesn't have key-code that will allow the compressor to operate. He has to page asst mgr to come punch in the key code. Waits additional 10 minutes between each additional time he has to page asst manager again and again.

9.) Finally, an hour later from arrival at the store, the code is punched in and the airfill begins.

10.) 15 minutes later, fill complete, customer head to the front to check out.

11.) 30 registers can be seen across the front of the store, but only two of them are open. Wait 25 minutes to check out a $3 Wal-Mart air fill.

12.) There is no bar code on the tank for the air fill, so cashier doesn't know how to check out the air fill. Pages assistant mangaer. (repeats page as before)

13.) Asst Mgr shows up, punches in some magic code for cashier to ring up $3 charge

14.) Finally, 2 hours later, you leave Walmart digusted after getting your $3 airfill.​

That is stil much better service than my local shop. Leave the tanks there for 3 days to get a smiley sticker and a fill and when I return, the thing still is not done.