Online Sales - The importance of buying from local businesses

[GrumpyOldGuy]

That will not happen, except MAYBE in the central part of California and the maybe south Florida. You CANNOT operate a commercial air compressor at a profit unless you are located in a VERY high density diving area. Fill Express is succesful because of where he is, combined with the friendly policies. Further, it simply isn't worth the preceived liability for the small amount revenue for most big box stores.

Phil Ellis

It might be possible for someone to set up a central filling center (running an night to get cheap electric rates) and distribute company owned tanks via truck to local sporting goods stores. It has been done with propane.

Its not cheap, but it removes the need for skill and equipment at the distribution point. I am not a proponent of this, merely pointing out that once you have a disruptive tecnology like online sales affecting the market, the model may change. If LDS are using equipment sales to subsidize their air sales, this will have to change since the online presence cannot be ignored.

 

[Randy43068]

Products -

Training -

Fills -

Well said...

snipped to save space.........

 

[Randy43068]

It might be possible for someone to set up a central filling center (running an night to get cheap electric rates) and distribute company owned tanks via truck to local sporting goods stores. It has been done with propane.

Its not cheap, but it removes the need for skill and equipment at the distribution point. I am not a proponent of this, merely pointing out that once you have a disruptive tecnology like online sales affecting the market, the model may change. If LDS are using equipment sales to subsidize their air sales, this will have to change since the online presence cannot be ignored.

I don't think I agree with your reasoning... in fact, I don't.

It matters not how the compressed air is supplied be it a compressor or nurse tanks. You'll still need someone to check the cylinder to see if it's in VIP and Hydro. You'll still be transferring high pressure air with the attendant risks no matter the air source.

 

[mike_s]

How long do you give it til every Super Walmart or Dick's Sporting Goods has a compressor?

I can see that now.

1.) Customer carries tank into Walmart.

2.) Customer has to stop and get the walmart smile face sticker on your tank to prove it's your before you can carry it into the store. They are out of stickers. Employee pages asst mgr on phone for more stickers. Employee pages asst mgr 3 more times. Finally you get your smiley face sticker.

3.) Customer carries tank back to sporting goods.

4.) Sporting goods employee at counter is no where to be found.

5.) Customer walks over to nearby Auto Service counter to have Sporting Goods employee paged. They page him 3 more times before he shows back up. But he can't fill the tank. He has to find another employee

6.) Other employee is paged 3 times

7.) Other employee finally shows up 15 minute later to fill the tank.

8.) Employee goes to fill up tank, but doesn't have key-code that will allow the compressor to operate. He has to page asst mgr to come punch in the key code. Waits additional 10 minutes between each additional time he has to page asst manager again and again.

9.) Finally, an hour later from arrival at the store, the code is punched in and the airfill begins.

10.) 15 minutes later, fill complete, customer head to the front to check out.

11.) 30 registers can be seen across the front of the store, but only two of them are open. Wait 25 minutes to check out a $3 Wal-Mart air fill.

12.) There is no bar code on the tank for the air fill, so cashier doesn't know how to check out the air fill. Pages assistant mangaer. (repeats page as before)

13.) Asst Mgr shows up, punches in some magic code for cashier to ring up $3 charge

14.) Finally, 2 hours later, you leave Walmart digusted after getting your $3 airfill.​

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Guys,

This models is up an running in Walmarts all over the US. It may not be good, but it works. They do have to page someone to open the cabinet, pull out a filled bottle and take your empty. Probably less time than it takes at your LDS since the new bottle is full already.

Yes, I know it sucks. One size fits all, blah, blah, blah

But if the alternative is paying 2x the price for all your gear to subsidize your local LDS who does not know how to run a business (he may be a nice guy, good diver, poor businessperson), then it is an alternative.

Try thinking outside the box - 90% of all ideas are stupid - but trying is better than crying.

 

[Randy43068]

I can see that now.

1.) Customer carries tank into Walmart.

2.) Customer has to stop and get the walmart smile face sticker on your tank to prove it's your before you can carry it into the store. They are out of stickers. Employee pages asst mgr on phone for more stickers. Employee pages asst mgr 3 more times. Finally you get your smiley face sticker.

3.) Customer carries tank back to sporting goods.

4.) Sporting goods employee at counter is no where to be found.

5.) Customer walks over to nearby Auto Service counter to have Sporting Goods employee paged. They page him 3 more times before he shows back up. But he can't fill the tank. He has to find another employee

6.) Other employee is paged 3 times

7.) Other employee finally shows up 15 minute later to fill the tank.

8.) Employee goes to fill up tank, but doesn't have key-code that will allow the compressor to operate. He has to page asst mgr to come punch in the key code. Waits additional 10 minutes between each additional time he has to page asst manager again and again.

9.) Finally, an hour later from arrival at the store, the code is punched in and the airfill begins.

10.) 15 minutes later, fill complete, customer head to the front to check out.

11.) 30 registers can be seen across the front of the store, but only two of them are open. Wait 25 minutes to check out a $3 Wal-Mart air fill.

12.) There is no bar code on the tank for the air fill, so cashier doesn't know how to check out the air fill. Pages assistant mangaer. (repeats page as before)

13.) Asst Mgr shows up, punches in some magic code for cashier to ring up $3 charge

14.) Finally, 2 hours later, you leave Walmart digusted after getting your $3 airfill.​

what if I want a NITROX fill? Without the obscene green sticker on the bottle??

 

[Rich (UTAH)]

Nice can of worms!

Craig,

It was well said by Narcossis in post #9. I typically go to the LDS for most of my diving needs. But not everybody lives on the coast and has easy access to lots of dive shops competing for business. Having equipment available online is a huge help. Just for example, my local dive shops don't carry freediving equipment. There is not enough demand. I have to visit somebody elses local dive shop 2 states and 700 miles west (Calf) to get fit for mask, fins, and wetsuit. Some equipment doesn't need fitting, and if my LDS isn't interested in carrying it, should I be held hostage? If my LDS's decide to overprice their inventory, should I not have an alternative? I say Yes

Craig, are you by chance a LDS owner/employee? If so, let me ask you this, what dive equipment manufacturers do you represent?

Now, what sort of pricing limits are dictated to you by each of the manufactures you represent in order for you to keep your authorized dealer status?

Are the online dealers losing money on each of their equipment sales? (I will guess here and say 'No') For current models of equipment, are they paying less for the product than you are? If so, why?

Do the manufacturers you represent allow you to sell your equipment online? Over the phone?

The internet is only getting bigger. This 'problem' you see, that effects all of our ability to walk into a brick and morter building and talk to a knowledgable and experienced sales person or get an air refill is only going to get worse if the dive shops can't adapt to what is happening. I hope the manufactures realize this. I don't think the answer is for the manufactures to tighten their grip on pricing, I think it is just the opposite, let the market dictate the price.

I personally think that local dive shops could make a lot more equipment sales if they were 'allowed' by the big manufacturers to sell the products they carry for whatever price they wished. If you could haggle with potential buyers that are in your shop and gain them as customers and still make some profit, you are better off than having them walk out of your store, money still in pocket, and order the item or one like it online. The more equipment you sell of the brands you carry, the more service you can provide as divers bring in their gear for service. Just a thought.

 

[mike_s]

Guys,

This models is up an running in Walmarts all over the US. It may not be good, but it works. They do have to page someone to open the cabinet, pull out a filled bottle and take your empty. Probably less time than it takes at your LDS since the new bottle is full already.

Yeah... but chances are the person with the key has to be paged 5 times, then they give you a tank that has leaked out or wasn't filled to 3000psi and causes even more frustrations.

what if I want a NITROX fill? Without the obscene green sticker on the bottle??

I don't think we want to trust a $6/hour walmart employee to blending oxygen.

(but then again, some dive shops don't pay their employees any better, and they blend gas...)

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

mike_s

First, if you assume Walmart, the 5 pages might be needed. The model works for any retail outlet, so pick a store that is smaller.

Second, I always use a pressure checker. Nothing worse than driving out to the coast only to find you have been short filled.

Third, this model has the clerk (walmart or whatever) only handing you a pre-filled tank. Well within almost anyones capabilities.

Fourth, the filling is done off site. It can probably be done better there anyway as fills at the LDS depends upon who is doing it and how many tanks are in the queue. Thus my reason for checking the pressure on every tank before I leave the LDS.

Lastly, this type of model probably only supports plain old air in AL80 tanks. You loose flexibility. Sorry, I never said it was a good solution.

 

[cruiser]

I can see that now.

1.) Customer carries tank into Walmart.​

2.) Customer has to stop and get the walmart smile face sticker on your tank to prove it's your before you can carry it into the store. They are out of stickers. Employee pages asst mgr on phone for more stickers. Employee pages asst mgr 3 more times. Finally you get your smiley face sticker.​

3.) Customer carries tank back to sporting goods.​

4.) Sporting goods employee at counter is no where to be found.​

5.) Customer walks over to nearby Auto Service counter to have Sporting Goods employee paged. They page him 3 more times before he shows back up. But he can't fill the tank. He has to find another employee​

6.) Other employee is paged 3 times​

7.) Other employee finally shows up 15 minute later to fill the tank.​

8.) Employee goes to fill up tank, but doesn't have key-code that will allow the compressor to operate. He has to page asst mgr to come punch in the key code. Waits additional 10 minutes between each additional time he has to page asst manager again and again.​

9.) Finally, an hour later from arrival at the store, the code is punched in and the airfill begins.​

10.) 15 minutes later, fill complete, customer head to the front to check out.​

11.) 30 registers can be seen across the front of the store, but only two of them are open. Wait 25 minutes to check out a $3 Wal-Mart air fill.​

12.) There is no bar code on the tank for the air fill, so cashier doesn't know how to check out the air fill. Pages assistant mangaer. (repeats page as before)​

13.) Asst Mgr shows up, punches in some magic code for cashier to ring up $3 charge​

14.) Finally, 2 hours later, you leave Walmart digusted after getting your $3 airfill.​

This sounds like an experience at K-Mart, not Wal-Mart.