One dead, husband injured - National Diving Centre, UK

[Diver0001]

I am sure the mods here will enforce the rules and keep things respectful, but I just wanted to point out that whilst the husband remains in hospital, he does have access to the internet so may read what is written here: I am sure he has enough to deal with, having blown off 45 minutes of deco in his effort to save his wife.

From the initial reports it would appear that the heart attack may have been the cause of the accident as opposed to being caused by the accident.

Can anyone confirm this?

R..

 

[gianaameri]

From the initial reports it would appear that the heart attack may have been the cause of the accident as opposed to being caused by the accident.

Can anyone confirm this?

R..

Only a pathologist can diagnose a myocardial infarction based on anatomopathological findings after doing an autopsy.

Until then, reports are largely speculative.

 

[KeithG]

As a non-deco diver, this incident raises a question that can help us noobs to better understand the obligations of deco diving:

Q: What are the rules / guidelines / accepted procedures regarding an underwater incident and blowing your own deco obligation?

Let's go hypothetical. It appears that 1 member of the team had a medical incident. The second member of the team appears to have ignored a significant deco obligation in order to help the stricken team member.

I have no idea what the appropriate action of the second team member "should" be in this type of situation. Is this part of deco training? Are there normally acceptable behaviors for this situation? I would be amazed if this issue was not central to deco dive behaviour.

I am interested in trying to learn more about the normally accepted behaviours as opposed to discussing if THIS particular dive followed them.

For me, this situation presents an incredibly difficult choice. One that I believe I am not willing to make. Likely one that will prevent me from ever doing deco dives.

So what do the "rules" (if any) say team member #2 "should" do in situations similar to this?

NOTE: I have not searched to see if there are existing threads that will provide my answer.

 

[DiverDownDave]

Giffenk:
The correct response to a situation like this is largely dependent upon the situation. There really is no right or wrong answer.

If this was me and it was my wife or a close friend/dive buddy, I would take the Deco hit if I thought there was a chance to save her/them. On the other hand if this was some cowboy, that hasn't been following the rules for technical diving or is perhaps a total stranger, I'm not so inclined to potentially kill or permanently injure myself to save them.

Technical divers understand that this type of diving is riskier than 'regular' diving and have accepted the fact that they may have to leave someone behind or get left behind in a bad situation. Avoiding such a situation is why the training and equipment obligation is so intense. I'm glad you've thought about it beforehand and have not decided to enter technical diving at this time.

 

[KeithG]

Giffenk:
The correct response to a situation like this is largely dependent upon the situation. There really is no right or wrong answer.

If this was me and it was my wife or a close friend/dive buddy, I would take the Deco hit if I thought there was a chance to save her/them. On the other hand if this was some cowboy, that hasn't been following the rules for technical diving or is perhaps a total stranger, I'm not so inclined to potentially kill or permanently injure myself to save them.

Technical divers understand that this type of diving is riskier than 'regular' diving and have accepted the fact that they may have to leave someone behind or get left behind in a bad situation. Avoiding such a situation is why the training and equipment obligation is so intense. I'm glad you've thought about it beforehand and have not decided to enter technical diving at this time.

Thanks for the feedback. My opinion is similar. So no real interest in deco. This is not a choice I am prepared to take with my current divebuddy.

But I am more interested in learning more about what is officially taught as part of standard deco courses.

From my perspective there are 2 separate issues:
- is this scenario raised as part of standard deco training? (or is it totally ignored?)
- if identified, is there a standard response to this situation? (or is it left open as a personal / team choice?)

This is a terrible no win situation. But it is real. It happens. How do the standard training courses handle it? Are deco divers made fully aware of it? Are they given some suggested procedures?

 

[DandyDon]

I am interested in trying to learn more about the normally accepted behaviours as opposed to discussing if THIS particular dive followed them.

I heard from a diver who was with his best friend who died in a similar situation. He skipped 55 minutes of deco, but knew he was close to a chamber and expected to be in it soon if nothing went awry. He tried to save his friend, but couldn't - then, the chamber staff just monitored him for a few hours. No problems. Oh, he wouldn't post about those details as he didn't want to deal with grief here on SB while dealing with the loss of his friend, but he was nice enough to answer me in PM.

 

[KeithG]

I heard from a diver who was with his best friend who died in a similar situation. He skipped 55 minutes of deco, but knew he was close to a chamber and expected to be in it soon if nothing went awry. He tried to save his friend, but couldn't - then, the chamber staff just monitored him for a few hours. No problems. Oh, he wouldn't post about those details as he didn't want to deal with grief here on SB while dealing with the loss of his friend, but he was nice enough to answer me in PM.

Thanks for the input.

So maybe it is not discussed? If you want to maintain a positive outlook, then this is understandable.

In my younger years I took an intense car racing course (I sucked!). They never discussed the issue of crashing. Or being trapped in the car. And burning to death. It just was not part of the curriculum. On reflection, it was a real possibility. It was just ignored. Won't happen to us. Not part of the course. But it is real: I have witnessed 3 car racing deaths since that time.

Is deco training the same? Is this situation addressed as part of the training?

 

[descent]

... He skipped 55 minutes of deco, but knew he was close to a chamber and expected to be in it soon if nothing went awry. ...

Hopefully, a diver who is willing to skip deco and possibly sacrifice their health or even their life would be diving with someone equally generous.

 

[KenGordon]

Thanks for the input.

So maybe it is not discussed? If you want to maintain a positive outlook, then this is understandable.

In my younger years I took an intense car racing course (I sucked!). They never discussed the issue of crashing. Or being trapped in the car. And burning to death. It just was not part of the curriculum. On reflection, it was a real possibility. It was just ignored. Won't happen to us. Not part of the course. But it is real: I have witnessed 3 car racing deaths since that time.

Is deco training the same? Is this situation addressed as part of the training?

Advanced deco courses may or may not discuss this, mine did but that will depend on the particular instructor. However, this is a bit more important in principle in a rescue course. There are many more ways for a diver to put themselves at risk than just skipping deco.

On my PRM (practical rescue management - part of the BSAC equivalent of Rescue Diver) one of the scenarios discussed was what can a boatload of divers do to save a diver trapped at 30m. The idea is to make people think about bad stuff before it happens rather than make up a response on the fly.

My buddy has discussed scenarios like the incident in this thread with his wife. In the event that I need to be rescued when he has a significant deco obligation I will be going to the surface accompanied by a DSMB while he sits out his deco. If he were to be diving with his young son I think she would expect a different balance of priorities,

If you look in the 2014 BSAC incident report and at the fatalities reported on here you will find some similar incidents where you might guess that a second casualty was attempting a rescue. That is a terrible and very sad outcome. All the rescue training I have done tries to make the point of avoiding two casualties. Of course it depends on the circumstances, a boat with limited help is different to a dive centre with O2 and dozens of people to do CPR etc.

You can see what the surviving diver in this case has said for himself at The Dive Forum, easily found by Google.

 

[Diver0001]

There are some best practices for missed deco. IIRC they are documented in Mark Powell's book. I would be surprised if there are many technical divers who don't have something along those lines as a contingency plan.

In this case if the rescuer knew he had 45 min of stops and was able to hand off the victim quickly on the surface it would have been possible to go back and do (most of) his stops.

That said, it would be hard to get into the do-the-right-thing mode when rescuing a loved one. Also i don't know if the site he was at would make it possible to hand off the victim quickly or not.

If so logic would suggest that he should have gone back and done his stops. The prognosis for a heart attack / drowning victim who had herself also missed 45 min of stops wasn't promising. Again, it would be hard to force yourself to think that way in such a situation.

How is the husband? Did he survive?

R..