On Your Own: The Buddy System Rebutted By Bob Halstead

[johndiver999]

thanks for the clarification, that makes a lot more sense to me and is a reasonable position. I do occasionally solo dive, but mostly because I can't find a buddy. When that happens I keep the dives conservative and use all the appropriate redundancies. A frequent buddy is my recently certified 14 yo daughter, and I have to admit that I approach diving with her not as a buddy dive but as a solo dive as well, I assume she will need my help but won't be able to provide me assistance, until she is a bit more experienced.

I think you should work diligently with her to become a viable buddy. If you have the attitude that she has little or no responsibility on the dive or to be an accomplished diver, then this attitude will be transmitted to her and she will progress more slowly.

If it were my daughter, I would want to push her ASAP to be able to handle most problems including buddy separation and being able to completely manage a solo ascent, for example.

14 yr olds can do a lot of complex and dangerous sports, often better than most adults, but their risk assessment skills are probably their biggest weakness. This can be offset to a large degree by predive planning and communication with the adult.

 

[Kharon]

But on the few occasions where things have gotten sticky for various reasons, it's always been my buddy's brain and ability to problem solve independently of me that's come in handy.

If I thought I couldn't handle whatever problem that comes up in the conditions and parameters of a dive I would not do it. I neither need nor want someone else thinking for me.

Properly implemented, the buddy/team system is going to be safer than solo diving in most scenarios.

Totally disagree. It might be as safe properly implimented - but I've seldom seen it properly implimented, particularly with boat diving in a crowd, where no one is actually paired with a buddy, or with randomly paired buddies.

Still easier with help.

Actually, I strongly disagree with this. When someone tries to help me, especially not being familiar with the exact way I set up my gear and the procedure for donning it, they always eff me up. I prefer people to keep their hands off my gear, and do not try to help me unless and untill I explicitly ask for help. Bozos that rush in thinking they know what I need done are extremely counterproductive.

And, let me ask, how many times have you actually needed a buddies assistance? With just over 300 dives, 182 of them solo, (actually not many, I know) I have never, ever needed assistance from any one else.

 

[jadairiii]

[Properly implemented, the buddy/team system is going to be safer than solo diving in most scenarios.] Totally disagree. It might be as safe properly implimented - but I've seldom seen it properly implimented, particularly with boat diving in a crowd, where no one is actually paired with a buddy, or with randomly paired buddies.

Your comment makes no sense. You "totally disagree" then confirm exactly what the poster stated.

That fact that the buddy system is "seldom properly implemented" is a failure of training, not the System.

Bozos that rush in thinking they know what I need done are extremely counterproductive....

Again, poor training, not a condemnation of the system

And, let me ask, how many times have you actually needed a buddies assistance? With just over 300 dives, 182 of them solo, (actually not many, I know) I have never, ever needed assistance from any one else.

Life saving, none. Fixing minor issues that could have escalated, plenty. Helping and being helped.

 

[NAM001]

@Hickdive The latter is generally referred to as "same ocean" buddy diving.

yep I cant tell you how many times i have been poked at by those that say there is no such thing as diving solo with others. If you can dive tech with others you can dive solo with others. tech and solo is a description is skill sets and conditions.

 

[helodriver87]

If I thought I couldn't handle whatever problem that comes up in the conditions and parameters of a dive I would not do it. I neither need nor want someone else thinking for me.



Totally disagree. It might be as safe properly implimented - but I've seldom seen it properly implimented, particularly with boat diving in a crowd, where no one is actually paired with a buddy, or with randomly paired buddies.



Actually, I strongly disagree with this. When someone tries to help me, especially not being familiar with the exact way I set up my gear and the procedure for donning it, they always eff me up. I prefer people to keep their hands off my gear, and do not try to help me unless and untill I explicitly ask for help. Bozos that rush in thinking they know what I need done are extremely counterproductive.

And, let me ask, how many times have you actually needed a buddies assistance? With just over 300 dives, 182 of them solo, (actually not many, I know) I have never, ever needed assistance from any one else.

First point, I agree. If I can't do it myself, I won't do it. Doesn't mean having competent help doesn't improve things.

Second point, we agree. Poorly trained buddies are worse than solo. Well trained teams that regularly work together and know each other's equipment configurations are totally different.

Third point, see above.

Fourth point, a few times. Once with line entanglement in a single file restriction. I could've worked myself free or even cut the line if needed, but having a buddy behind me made it very quick and easy. If I'd been in the back, different story, but it doesn't change the scenario. There have been other minor occasions. Once with a freeflowing first stage on my right post. I fixed it myself, but having a team that was aware of what happened and ready to take action if anything else happened was awesome.

 

[NAM001]

Hmmm, yes , beginner diver I. However I am also a very experienced Tree surgeon, we are not allowed to work alone. All the above pros n cons apply there too ! All the levels of scuba diving hazards apply here too ! ( Instant death, painful injuries, life long injuries )
Just as indicated above, my best work is done with my best man alongside me, the worse work I have done is with a useless or inexperienced twonk.
Thou, in Scuba , you do get a choice. .....make it yr best choice every time... k

There is a big difference between scuba and tree service. A sudden gust of wind can change a day very quickly. there are a lot of things that are not comprable between the two. divers are not tethered the things like you jacks are. because of those differences the odds of something going wrong is much higher. And from what I have seen with trees of 100 ft or so with fall archs that will hit structures you just cant do it alone in many situations. especially when you have a zipline type thing you are bringing branch by branch done untill you can get the tree topped and insure a good fall.

 

[jadairiii]

There is a big difference between scuba and tree service. .

That is a misconception. Things can go bad very quickly in 90' of water. Very few training agencies spend the time necessary to train a new diver in emergency procedures and recreational dive gear is not well designed to safely and comfortably allow 2 divers on one air source to surface, while performing safety stops and controlling the OOA diver.

I would be so bold as to say that 99% of all new divers could not handle and OOA emergency of their buddy safely in 90'. There is no muscle memory.

The only reason we dont see more fatalities in diving is a testament to how good dive gear today really is and how very few failures there are. Also, most diving is done so shallow that OOA emergencies pretty much solve themselves, by the time they fart around their poor buoyancy skills have floated them to the surface already.

 

[loosenit2]

I think you should work diligently with her to become a viable buddy. If you have the attitude that she has little or no responsibility on the dive or to be an accomplished diver, then this attitude will be transmitted to her and she will progress more slowly.

If it were my daughter, I would want to push her ASAP to be able to handle most problems including buddy separation and being able to completely manage a solo ascent, for example.

14 yr olds can do a lot of complex and dangerous sports, often better than most adults, but their risk assessment skills are probably their biggest weakness. This can be offset to a large degree by predive planning and communication with the adult.

Interesting that you assume I am not doing that, but with young divers there is a balance; you have to make diving fun to keep the passion ignited. If it is all drills and work it will turn them off of the sport completely. She is a capable enough diver and we practice share air drills and separated diver drills, proper dive planning, and we practice one basic skill per dive. Even with that it will be several more dives with her at least until I am confident that she is a skilled buddy who is truly capable of assisting me in an emergency. Will require her getting comfortable enough in the water that she can think in an emergency.

I would also offer that approach dives with “insta-buddies” the same way. I always assume they will need my help but won’t be able to help me until I achieve some level of comfort with their skills in the water. I think this is a reasonable and conservative approach.

 

[NAM001]

That is a misconception. Things can go bad very quickly in 90' of water. Very few training agencies spend the time necessary to train a new diver in emergency procedures and recreational dive gear is not well designed to safely and comfortably allow 2 divers on one air source to surface, while performing safety stops and controlling the OOA diver.

I would be so bold as to say that 99% of all new divers could not handle and OOA emergency of their buddy safely in 90'. There is no muscle memory.

The only reason we dont see more fatalities in diving is a testament to how good dive gear today really is and how very few failures there are. Also, most diving is done so shallow that OOA emergencies pretty much solve themselves, by the time they fart around their poor buoyancy skills have floated them to the surface already.

I think you misunderstood me. My point was that there is much more that can go wrong in tree service than in rec diving. You point deals with that ability to handle things when it goes wrong. the end result is the product of both aspects. You are right in that divers are less equipped to handle problems that tree folks are. Especially when the divers are new ones with little experience compared to the degree that tree service has. No way does a diver have to do what a tree man has to do to get a several hundred # limb safely on the ground safely while dealing with all the contingencies. divers really have but 2 issues air and buoyancy control. I agree that their inabliity to handle those 2 things try to ballance things out in the end. I still hear of much more injuries in tree service than scuba. On the other hand i seldom hear of a tree mans harness falling off mid air like i do tanks falling out of divers BCD's either.

 

[Ana]

That is a misconception. Things can go bad very quickly in 90' of water. Very few training agencies spend the time necessary to train a new diver in emergency procedures and recreational dive gear is not well designed to safely and comfortably allow 2 divers on one air source to surface, while performing safety stops and controlling the OOA diver.

I would be so bold as to say that 99% of all new divers could not handle and OOA emergency of their buddy safely in 90'. There is no muscle memory.

The only reason we dont see more fatalities in diving is a testament to how good dive gear today really is and how very few failures there are. Also, most diving is done so shallow that OOA emergencies pretty much solve themselves, by the time they fart around their poor buoyancy skills have floated them to the surface already.

I don't know the statistics but have first person account from my husband on a charter boat with an insta-buddy. A young guy in his 20's, run out of air, quickly swam to my husband and just stare a him with huge eyes, my husband only had 1 second stage so without letting go of it, placed it in the kid's mouth and after a few breaths took it back. At the beginning the guy didn't just easily let go the 2nd stage, but after a couple of back-n-forth my husband commented by the time they reached the surface that guy probably could have written a thesis on the art of buddy breathing even if he was taught to use an additional 2nd stage.

There may not be muscle memory but there's usually a strong survival instinct. If you don't know what to do when your buddy runs out of air, most likely he'll figure it out if he can get close enough to you and grab your second stage.... or he'll become an statistic.

Available air is not a secret by the way, you just need to look. Honestly for the life of me I don't understand how some people run out of air. Yeah I hear about gear failure, but truly not quite buy it. After 4 decades diving all kinds of gear I've always managed to end my dives with some air in the tank, used to push it when I was younger.. but the more I pushed the more I was paying attention. Like when you speed in the highway and have your head in a swivel looking for LEO's

As far as fewer diver death being a testament of good gear, I'm not sure that's a direct cause-effect.
My thought is that recreational diving is just not that difficult, if it was you wouldn't have so many weekend warriors involved in tech dives, they would get their adrenalin from regular rec dives. Going 100' to see pretty fish or some ship that failed is not that big of a challenge once you follow the few very basic rules for not getting yourself kill. Tech divers go further and further because they want more and more challenge.

Recreational divers should become self reliant because it would enhance their experience and it is not that hard. Rec divers that give a dam can do it without depending on 10 tons of gear. Everyone should be able to dive solo, whether they choose to share their dive with others or not.

Why does it have to be buddy or solo? Why not both?