On no island like Bonaire

[DiverVince]

Every dive site I've gone to in the Caribbean I have run into one or two people with a horrible tale to tell about crime on Bonaire and getting ripped off by theives, car rental agencies, condo owners, etc and how little the police do.

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Wow PF, you've really outdone yourself with this statement! Every dive site? Well I don't know where you've been, but I certainly know where I've been for the last 30 years spent diving the Caribbean and funny no one has ever said anything to me about Bonaire which was horrible in any way, shape or form. On the contrary, the folks that I've spoken to who have been there loved it and those who have not expressed their desire to visit Bonaire soon. I wonder exactly where oh where have you been diving?

Personally, I think the veracity of your statements are highly questionable. Now really, what type of chicanery is going on here? Oops I forgot..Since I own property on the island I am "biased" from your point of view and everything I post is "pixie dust" (to use your words).

I am curious though, I thought I was well traveled in the Caribbean region. So, please enlighten me. If Bonaire is as terrible and dangerous as you depict, then what islands can I visit in the Caribbean to dive in peace from the beach and not have to worry about anything? Apparently I haven't been there yet but I suspect you have, otherwise you wouldn't be so persistent.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Every tale relating to Bonaire that PF talks about is pure lies that he makes up on the spot IMO. Someone questioned the validity of my posts and whether they should be called heresay or not. I personally accept that and would ask that ALL people participate with this little experiement.....I am not starting a new POLL however anybody else can. If all of my information is heresay, let's try to summarize PERSONAL experience with Bonaire.....

Post the number of different times you have visited the island and the number of first hand (your product only) run ins with crime (theft of anything from car parts to clothing to electronics and so on). I will start:

2 times to the island
0 (ZERO) first hand crimes

Do not speak of others in your parties, or people you know......this is to establish TRUE FIRST HAND experience only. That was we can eliminate this whole HERESAY issue.

 

[Jax]

There is a very solid reason Boniare keeps its growing crime problem and stats a secret . . .

Pilot Fish, you are begging the question in so many ways!

1. You assume Bonaire has a growing crime problem. Please provide an authoritative source!
2. You assume the island is keeping the alleged problem and statistics thereof a secret . . .
3. You are making statements as if they were a fact, when in fact you have failed to produce an authoritative source.

So, PF, do you have and will you provide one element of truth to your allegation that Bonair has a "growing crime problem"?

In short, you don't believe what you read and hear, I do believe it. I see no reason for people to lie.

This, sir, is a falsehood! If it were true, you would then believe the statements of others which is, "Bonaire has petty crime, and one should conduct oneself accordingly."

 

[oly5050user]

Every tale relating to Bonaire that PF talks about is pure lies that he makes up on the spot IMO. Someone questioned the validity of my posts and whether they should be called heresay or not. I personally accept that and would ask that ALL people participate with this little experiement.....I am not starting a new POLL however anybody else can. If all of my information is heresay, let's try to summarize PERSONAL experience with Bonaire.....

Post the number of different times you have visited the island and the number of first hand (your product only) run ins with crime (theft of anything from car parts to clothing to electronics and so on). I will start:

2 times to the island
0 (ZERO) first hand crimes

Do not speak of others in your parties, or people you know......this is to establish TRUE FIRST HAND experience only. That was we can eliminate this whole HERESAY issue.

approx 25-30 times on island..never had a incident personally.Back on island 4/18th..

 

[Cave Diver]

Pilot Fish, you are begging the question in so many ways!

1. You assume Bonaire has a growing crime problem. Please provide an authoritative source!
2. You assume the island is keeping the alleged problem and statistics thereof a secret . . .
3. You are making statements as if they were a fact, when in fact you have failed to produce an authoritative source.

So, PF, do you have and will you provide one element of truth to your allegation that Bonair has a "growing crime problem"?

Jax, I'm going to agree with the PilotFish on the fact that Bonaire has a growing crime problem. What I won't agree with him on is the extent.

My research indicates that Bonaire continues to enjoy an increase in tourists every year. As the number of tourists increase, there are more opportunities for crime so the number of crimes will increase.

However, that doesn't mean that the percentage is increasing. So if you look at the number of crimes committed vs. the number of residents, it's going to show an upswing. If you look at just the numbers, it's going to show an upswing. If you look at it from sheer number of visitors, it may actually show a decline.

In short, PilotFish appears to be making a mountain out of a molehill, and planting his flag on top of it.

 

[Jax]

Jax, I'm going to agree with the PilotFish on the fact that Bonaire has a growing crime problem. What I won't agree with him on is the extent.

My research indicates that Bonaire continues to enjoy an increase in tourists every year. As the number of tourists increase, there are more opportunities for crime so the number of crimes will increase.

However, that doesn't mean that the percentage is increasing. So if you look at the number of crimes committed vs. the number of residents, it's going to show an upswing. If you look at just the numbers, it's going to show an upswing. If you look at it from sheer number of visitors, it may actually show a decline.

In short, PilotFish appears to be making a mountain out of a molehill, and planting his flag on top of it.

Image snipped.

Good point! I was not thinking of absolute numbers, but of percentages. The most accurate metric is on per capita basis.

 

[mike_s]

Cave Diver.... I just about fell out of my chair...

EDIT: Ok... make that twice...

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Let's not forget there are direct questions awaiting a response that is on subject here...

If past holds true, pf will be out of the thread for a day or so and then be back starting with his original line of statements believing these questions have left everyone's mind...

If we keep these questions out in the open, he might not return at all :cool2:

(Well, until the next thread anyway)

There is a very solid reason Boniare keeps its growing crime problem and stats a secret -it would adversly effect tourism.

If divers had an accurate picture of just how bad it really is, they would find safer areas to spend thier dive dollars. The pro Bonaire crowd foolishly think since there are no stats on Bonaire crime, it must not exist. Wow! That's hard to believe.So what do we really have to go on?

Well, there is Bonaire talk, there is word of mouth from the many victims, there is Scubaboard, all good sources of truth. Every dive site I've gone to in the Caribbean I have run into one or two people with a horrible tale to tell about crime on Bonaire and getting ripped off by theives, car rental agencies, condo owners, etc and how little the police do.

Now, you pro Bonaire crowd dismiss that. Fine. I do not. Since there are no crime stats on Bonaire, your claim of a perfect island ,where crime is the exception, holds as much weight as the reports of crime as a general rule.

Pilot Fish, pull your head out... ...of the sand. Show me where someone has claimed the island to be crime free, or where anyone has claimed it to be perfect.

Every dive site you've been to, has one or two people that tell of crime on Bonaire.

Question:Once more, I'm going to ask you to quantify that. How many trips have you made to the Caribbean in the last year? How many dive sites have you visited where "one or two people" had "a horrible tale to tell about crime on Bonaire"? How any people total is this? 5? 20? 100?

The vehemence with which you run around decrying Bonaire reminds me of the story of Chicken Little, where the sky is falling but turns out to be just an acorn.

I came to this discussion willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but unbelievably, practically every post you make costs you even more credibility IMO.

In short, you don't believe what you read and hear, I do believe it. I see no reason for people to lie. How many stories have you read, here on this board, where after a crime is committed the Bonaire police are very slow to respond and once they do, nothing gets done?

Answer:I have seen 4, maybe 5 stories that have been repeated ad nauseum and regurgitated over and over as continued "proof" of the growing problem on Bonaire. (see it's not that hard to answer a question)

Question: Once more I'm going to ask you how many unique stories you have read in the past year about crime on Bonaire?

You have to ask yourself, why is there so many personal reports of crime on Bonaire that you do not read and hear about on other islands, but when you check it on the internet, on Offical Bonaire sites, you see no mention of it or any crime stats that reflect the reality of what is going on?

Maybe you should call 20/20 and have them do an expose' on it? Or the National Enquirer?

Where there is a lot of smoke............................................. ..............

There is probably someone blowing it...............

So what tactic do the pro Bonaire crowd employ? Attack, vileify and ridicule the people that try to bring out the truth.

Who exactly are the pro Bonaire crowd, and what label do you give yourself?

=================================

You chaps remind me of the people that keep saying, the Titanic is unsinkable and there is nothing at all to worry about. You call my views based on hearsay but the hearsay you get is more accurate and reliable? Interesting. Funny, actually.

You also remind me of what I learned of Chamberlain prior to WWII. "Herr Adolf has given me his word. There will be no war. Rest easy lads. Nothing to worry about." Right!

Time to face the reality and try to make things better.

Here we go with Godwins Law.

Pilot Fish, would you please point out a single post I've made saying there is nothing to worry about? How about pointing out any hearsay I've posted that I'm unwilling to cite sources for or quantify?

 

[Lobstah Slayah]

Hmm, I see pilot fish viewing the thread. Perhaps he or she is crafting their answer to the questions posed.

 

[Jax]

Safety and security
Terrorism There is a low threat from terrorism. But you should be aware of the global risk of indiscriminate terrorist attacks which could be in public areas, including those frequented by expatriates and foreign travellers. For more general information see Terrorism Abroad.

Crime Most visits to the Dutch Caribbean are trouble-free, however petty theft and street crime is a concern. There is violent crime amongst members of the illegal drugs world, but this rarely affects tourists. The main tourist areas are generally safe, but you are advised to take normal precautions and, for example, do not wander alone off the main roads, especially at night. Never take valuables to the beach. Make sure purses and handbags are closed and not easy to snatch. Unfortunately, the islands continue to be used to smuggle illegal drugs from South America to Europe and North America. You should have a heightened sense of awareness of this problem and never leave bags unattended, nor under any circumstances discuss or agree to carry a package for anyone. Some airports have installed "body scanners" and it is possible you may be required to have a scan. Dutch authorities generally screen all baggage and passengers from the Dutch Caribbean. For more general information see Victims of Crime Abroad.

Local Travel Small buses are available to get around the islands. When taking a taxi, always check that it is a registered one and negotiate the price before taking the ride. Most taxis do not have meters. Remote areas should be avoided at night.

Netherlands Antilles travel advice

It's amazing, it sounds like any American city . . .