Oly E-330 Comments Wanted

[Fota]

From my limited experience (two dives in cold water) the dpreviewer was wrong. In A mode, the LCD looked just like I expected it to look. I have been shooting an Oly c5050 for years and the LCD looked as bright and clear, only bigger! I was using A mode. I think B mode isn't useful for u/w; you will use this mode when doing macro work from a tripod.

Oh, after reading both dpreview and DCRP (www.dcresource.com/reviews/olympus/e330-review/index.shtml) my impression was the the B mode was the only usable mode! Well, at least when doing uw-macro (not using tripod but I often try to find dead spots to place the camera due to the slow af and shutter in my 7070).
0.7 sec shutter lag is slow (it's what I read the Mode B adds), but my 7070 is way slower than that (especially including the autofocus in low light or tricky conditions, yes I use a focus light). So maybe it's livable for macro shots...?

Maybe it's because you haven't updated the firmware (have you yet)?
"...the new firmware adds support for autofocus in Live View Mode B, and spot metering in macro mode has also been improved."

I really need to go to a photo store and check it out. But I bet they haven't updated the firmware either. ;-)
I'll bring along my 7070 and compare. Hmm perhaps bringing a big jacket and checking under it would be a good idea...


/Fota

 

[jlyle]

Yes, I updated the firmware. You can now use auto-focus in Mode B, but it requires pressing the AEL button for autofocus and then the shutter to take the picture. There isn't any shutter lag after AF is achieved, but you don't want to move the camera due to the very shallow DOF. The advantage Mode B has when working with a tripod in macro is the ability to expand the image for manual focusing that's very precise (not something you would do u/w).

 

[Fota]

Yes, I updated the firmware. You can now use auto-focus in Mode B, but it requires pressing the AEL button for autofocus and then the shutter to take the picture. There isn't any shutter lag after AF is achieved,

Very interesting!

Do you need to keep the AEL button pressed down while taking the picture (seems tricky with thick gloves uw), or does it lock the focus when you "click" it?

Hmm lets try to sort this out. Please confirm or deny the following statements.

I mode B with latest firmware:

• 
  To get AF you need to click the AEL button.
  Clicking the AEL button will lock the focus, so you don't need to keep it pressed while taking the picture.

• 
  If you press AEL, after achieving focus there is no shutter lag.

• 
  If you do NOT press AEL, you work in manual focus mode and there is a shutter lag of almost 1 sec.

• 
  No matter if you press AEL or not, it's possible to expand the picture about 10 times (while composing).

There isn't any shutter lag after AF is achieved, but you don't want to move the camera due to the very shallow DOF. The advantage Mode B has when working with a tripod in macro is the ability to expand the image for manual focusing that's very precise (not something you would do u/w).

I have tried (when diving) several times to work with my 7070 in manual focus mode, but the problem is that its display is not good enough to judge if the object is really sharp. It also has a magnifier but its digital enhanced so called "quality" sucks big time also making it impossible to see when I get it sharp. So, I was looking forward to using mode B and it's enhancer. Especially now when it has AF, as it would give me a chance to see if the AF succeeded or not (my 7070 often fails but it's hard to know until I get home to my computer). Well to me it sounds like great news and very usable. Perhaps not when chasing a fish though. ;-)

I read about the new Panasonic with live view. Even though it costs twice as much as the E-330 the technical specs were less good in all things but one. It featured white balance in the live view. Cool, but it didn't even have a live mode A, only live mode B!
It seems to have copied the technique very much from E-330. I was expecting new much better techniques to show up, but perhaps Oly's Live view ideas weren't that bad after all. And there were many other things that the E-330 did better. Also funny is that what dpreview complained mostly about was the price of the E-330 (which has dropped some since the review), but it seems to be a much better choice than the twice as expensive Panasonic!

 

[jlyle]

Very interesting!

Do you need to keep the AEL button pressed down while taking the picture (seems tricky with thick gloves uw), or does it lock the focus when you "click" it?

Hmm lets try to sort this out. Please confirm or deny the following statements.

I mode B with latest firmware:

• 
  To get AF you need to click the AEL button.
  Clicking the AEL button will lock the focus, so you don't need to keep it pressed while taking the picture.

• 
  If you press AEL, after achieving focus there is no shutter lag.

• 
  If you do NOT press AEL, you work in manual focus mode and there is a shutter lag of almost 1 sec.

• 
  No matter if you press AEL or not, it's possible to expand the picture about 10 times (while composing).

No, you don't have to hold down the AEL button; you push it once for auto-focus and then push the shutter button.

Your list is correct except:

If you press the shutter, after achieving focus there is no shutter lag.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I read about the new Panasonic with live view. Even though it costs twice as much as the E-330 the technical specs were less good in all things but one. It featured white balance in the live view. Cool, but it didn't even have a live mode A, only live mode B!
It seems to have copied the technique very much from E-330. I was expecting new much better techniques to show up, but perhaps Oly's Live view ideas weren't that bad after all. And there were many other things that the E-330 did better. Also funny is that what dpreview complained mostly about was the price of the E-330 (which has dropped some since the review), but it seems to be a much better choice than the twice as expensive Panasonic!

Panasonics LiveView camera is a byproduct of the growing partnership between Pany and Olympus in an effort to push the 4/3rds. The E330 uses Panasonic sensor technology and Pany gained the LiveView and dustbuster from Olympus. The DMC L1 is basically a rehoused E330 with Pany software using SD cards.

If you really want to spend even more, you can get the Leica version of the Pany, which is still basically the same with Leica software for almost twice the Pany pricetag :11:

 

[Fota]

Why is the B mode called the Macro mode?

Can't it be used for any kind of shooting?

The Panasonic DMC L1 and Leica only has the B mode (which they refer to as live mode, not live macro mode). I tested that camera yesterday (in a photo store), it worked like this:

1. Aim/Compose

2. Press shutter half way

3. 1-2 sec (really!) delay.
Longest delay if you went from focusing far away to close.
Lag time from focusing close to pretty close was more like 1 sek.
During this delay time the display was freezed.

4. The display now works again but this it has focused.

5. Press shutter the last part, no delay, picture taken.

So, very similar to E-330's B mode, except that on E-330 you press the AE button instead. Even though I haven't tested the E-330 yet, it seems much easier to press AE button to get focus than to half press. I think half pressing is a pain with thick gloves uw, especially with my Ikelite housing. So, even though Oly solution seemed odd at first I think it makes more sense now.

One good thing with Pany was that it had an optional 4x and 10x. I think the Oly only has 10x. I only tested the 4x and I found it very very usefull for getting and checking focus.

It should be really simple for Oly to fix that in firmware but will they ever bother...!?

Now what do you guys say about all this?

 

[jlyle]

B Mode is called "macro mode" because the 10X allows for precise focus you need when shooting macro pictures with very shallow DOF. DOF in macro shots can be as thin as a credit card. Using a tripod & B Mode allows you to take pictures of flies, bees, etc. that are in focus. Underwater, B Mode is pretty useless, on the other hand, A Mode works and has minimal shutter lag. As with my 5050, doing macro shots requires some skill and multiple shots to get keepers, especially when you start adding on diopters, extention tubes, and teleconverters!

The shutter lag (or should we call it autofocus lag?) in B Mode is due to the required physical movement of the mirror assembly, shutter speed is unaffected. If the DMC L1 and the Leica cameras only have B Mode, it's a real step backwards, except for microscope work.

This picture was taken in A mode:

 

[Fota]

B Mode is called "macro mode" because the 10X allows for precise focus you need when shooting macro pictures with very shallow DOF. DOF in macro shots can be as thin as a credit card. Using a tripod & B Mode allows you to take pictures of flies, bees, etc. that are in focus. Underwater, B Mode is pretty useless, on the other hand, A Mode works and has minimal shutter lag. As with my 5050, doing macro shots requires some skill and multiple shots to get keepers, especially when you start adding on diopters, extention tubes, and teleconverters!

The shutter lag (or should we call it autofocus lag?) in B Mode is due to the required physical movement of the mirror assembly, shutter speed is unaffected. If the DMC L1 and the Leica cameras only have B Mode, it's a real step backwards, except for microscope work.

This picture was taken in A mode:

Nice picture!

Hmm...
My Oly 7070 also has a 10(?) times enhancer (in both AF and manual mode). The problem is that its display is too small so it's hard to use it unless what you photograph is something very clear with large contrast (like text on a paper), and it requires that I half press the shutter. Half pressing is really hard as it is with the thick gloves I usually wear and with the Ikellite housing lever, so I never manage to press the extra button while half pressing (i.e. uw).

Anyway, I use the super macro mode on my 7070 almost exclusively and photograph things as small as tiny insects (uw). For this I use its small display, crappy AF and huge focus lag. I don't use a tripod uw (of curse ;-)).

So, to me the mode B sounds wonderful. I mean, a large, crystal clear display, precise and trystt AF and even though it has about 1 sec AF lag it's still faster than my 7070 in most situations!
An optional 10x enhancer that may prove to be very useful to see exactly the achieved focus (I would love to see an optional 4x enhancer). To see if I've moved the camera and lost focus etc.
And, a huge benefit (compared to mode B) is that I can see the DOF! That's wonderful, both in macro shots but also in other shots.

When shooting a moving fish, the A mode will be just perfect and something that I also very much look forward to. A fast AF and a large display.

But, perhaps what you are telling me is that mode A works so good, even in macro, that there is no need to use mode B!?

Well, I still have to test the camera (no store has it here!), but at least I've tested the Pany which seems to have the B mode very similar implemented to E-330 (with the benefits of an optional 4x and showing WB). For uw macro work, I think it could work very well. For shooting fish (and other moving creatures or plants) it's useless.

Do you disagree with my thoughts!?


/Fota

 

[jlyle]

Sounds good to me.

IMHO, "A" mode is going to do the trick for you in macro. Of course, I have not purchased a macro lens (like the sigma 105) with a flat port, but based on my limited experience with the 14-54mm at 54mm, you will be pleased with the camera's operation.