Okay to pull yourself down?

[m3830431]

Since the others pulled themselves down the chain wondering if they had any problems. As for me with a 7mm farmer jon I have a problem descending until about 5 feet. With 500psi at the end I can hoover at the saftey stop and swim up as slow as I want. Air gets trapped inside the wetsuit and it takes awhile for it all to escape.

Although the only time I tried to pull myself down was when I forgot my weights
(don't laugh) it didn't work to well, and I figured out the problem quickly.

 

[mnj1233]

MNJ,

The next time you dive do a weight check at the end of your dive.

Take the weight you normally dive in the smallest increments you can, ie:
if you dive 12 pounds, break your weight down into, say, a 3# and 3-1# weights on each side.

At the end of the dive with approximately 500 psi (the usual volume accepted for this procedure) at your 15' safety stop, deflate your B/C and holding a normal breath, determine if you are + or - buoyant.

If positive, then you'll need to add some weight (you would know this already because you would have had problems descending at the beginning of the dive).

If negative, hand off 1# at a time to your buddy and repeat the process until you become neutrally buoyant.

the K

Thanks but this is not my issue, read my post I was responding to the original post on this thread.

 

[mnj1233]

Hi, I need some advice on weighting and descending properly.

I went diving recently with a group of friends who had just finished their training. I haven't dived in over a year, and haven't done a cold water dive in over four years. The dive was to be to about 80 feet.

The DM asked everyone how much weight we were carrying and told me I was way over weighted so, ignoring the little voice in the back of my head, I took some weight out. Too much I think.

We got into the water and grouped at the surface by the anchor line to start our descent but I couldn't go down! The others used the chain to pull themselves down, but I tried everything I'd been taught: breathing easy, crossing my ankles so I wouldn't accidently fin, etc. but still just hovered.

My buddy came back to see what was up and suggested that I pull myself down by the chain also. I know that if I got down to a certain depth I'd be able to descend, but I didn't want to do this because I thought, If I'm underweighted, how will that affect me at depth?

I wasn't comfortable with that so, I aborted the dive. Was this the right thing to do or would I have been ok to use the chain to descend?

Thanks.

Curious if I read this correctly.
Did you ask advise or was it unsolicited? DM is first of all not automatically an instructor.
Second do you know how to do your own bouancy check in the water?
If you need a minute or two to do a check prior to the dive the just tell the DM in advance so he/she can accomadate all who need to at once.
This is much more efficient to get the group in the water without having to return to the boat after half the group is down.
I didnt read all the posts here so if Im redundant just ignore me!!!!

This is what my post should have appeared as!!!
__________________

 

[N2Baja]

Wow, I really appreciate all the responses; this is a great board and a great resource for new divers! To respond to some of the points that have been brought up:

I did do a scuba tune-up two weeks ago. I had no problems in the 12ft pool, but I was carrying more weight.

I too was surprised that we were going down to 80 ft, but this was where this group had done their certification dives, and no one else showed any concern.

I know how to check my bouyancy, and on my next dive I'll take weights in smaller increments and do a bouyancy check at the end of my dive.

Thanks again, everyone. I lost alot of confidence after this incident, but I'm getting a bit of it back and am looking forward to getting back into the water.

 

[markfm]

Please note, if you did your tuneup in a normal pool (fresh water), then dive in salt water, otherwise the same configuration (not changing from a diveskin in the pool to a drysuit in the ocean), you'll need more weight.
It's a 2.5% difference, 1 pound for every 40 of your total weight on land.
As a rough guide, if your own weight is around 180 pounds, an AL80, not too exotic a fitout (not, say, diving doubles), expect to need about 6 pounds more lead in salt water. If your weight is closer to 140, 5 is a likely start, if it's 220 go for 7.
(This is just to get you close, if you're transitioning from a pool/fresh water weight to salt water diving).

 

[ghostdiver1957]

Being truly underweighted is dangerous and not necessary. It is always better to be 1-2 lbs overweighted than 1-2 lbs underweighted. If you're not comfortable at the start of a dive (for any reason,) it is never a bad idea to abort. Starting off on the wrong foot can lead to an avalanche of problems leading to stress and ultimately panic.

I recommend not using this dive operator again. Obviously they were more concerned with what they think - than how you feel. That is not good.

Reasons to stay properly weighted or slightly overweighted are many. Reasons to be underweighted are zero. Playing my own devils advocate, he could have been using the knowledge and theory that there was heavy surge on the surface, and that once you got beneath it, you would be weighted properly. While his theory might have been correct for the beginning and duration of the dive, it would cause a potentially dangerous situation at the end of the dive when the surge pulled you to the surface without being able to do a safety stop - due to being underweighted.

These mistakes are commonly made by inexperienced divemasters. They are often leading large groups into open water. Even experienced dive masters have a lot more stress on them than they show. Your life is a lot of responsibility for them and they are often rushed and hurried to get you in the water. Many times their advice on a particular sight is sound and makes sense... however in this case it did not. You did the right thing in aborting the dive. You may have even saved your own life.

 

[FOUNDATIONER]

Okay to pull yourself down?







no.

 

[HowardE]

We got into the water and grouped at the surface by the anchor line to start our descent but I couldn't go down! The others used the chain to pull themselves down, but I tried everything I'd been taught: breathing easy, crossing my ankles so I wouldn't accidently fin, etc. but still just hovered.

Depending on how thick your wetsuit was, it may take a little tug to break the surface, and get below 5'...So pulling youself down just a little bit, doesn't sound too bad... However, if you would have to pull yourself down the whole way, that's obviously being underweighted.

Why didn't you just do a bouyancy check before you attempted to descend. Weighting youself, while it is mathematically possible to calculate the precise weight needed... Just do a simple surface bouyancy check before you attempt to descend, the DM on the boat obviously took too much weight out. Since you started the dive, then aborted, you did the right thing for that situation, but it could have easily been avoided.

 

[JRScuba]

You did exactly the right thing!!!!! If you at anytime feel that
something is not right on a dive, you and only you know when you should abort it. NOT YOUR BUDDY,DM,CAPTAIN,INSTRUCTOR,ETC.
You are trained and know your capablities, never exceed them.

There are NO oops or first mistakes ( let me do that again). Safety is your main concern, YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT.

JMHO

Joe

 

[mcclete22]

I think alot of people need to think about what they are saying. Force your way down by pulling yourself on a chain, or fin your way down? I firmly believe in diving youi should never force anything. Maybe I am naive, but saying Iwasn't wieghted right and couldn't descend is the same as my reg wasn't working right. If something is not working right why take a risk? And as an added topic for discussion, everyone says you should have tried to pull yourself down. Well what if as you pull yourself down you do not change buoyancy? What then. PLus as you are pulling and forcing your way down a chain, alot of effort put in, breathing heavier? NO calling the dive was the absolute right thing to do. Sit on the surface and think about what could be done different, not on the bottom. Plus you can always sit at the surface and troubleshoot, not so easy to troubleshoot if you are unsafely ascending. Those of you who say "You should force your way down"... If you are having to force something on a dive, the dive is not safe, and the dive is not fun. Calling the dive was the absolute right thing to do.