Ok Honestly?!?!?!

[SparticleBrane]

There also is a bit of safety factor... BP/W can present surface issues a new diver is not prepared to deal with or expect. Go with the BC, and learn a bit first.

That's funny -- I work with lots brand new divers all the time who have never worn a jacket, they have only ever used a BP/W in their basic OW class and they never have any issues.

 

[MSilvia]

Nairobi is roughly 300 miles from the coast. I don't know what the roads in Kenya are like, but if this was its neighbor Tanzania, the road into Daar Es Salaam is "so-so" by US Standards and I'd figure that that drive would take 7+ hours each way.

As such, I'd say that it looks beyond practical 'weekend' time budget trips, so I'd personally not bother to take my own full set of dive gear to Nairobi, unless I'm actually thinking about flying out to the Seychelles, Maldives, those islands off of Tanzania (whose name escapes me at the moment), etc.

The Mombasa/Nairobi road is hands down the worst paved road I've ever travelled in my life. It goes WAY beyond "so-so". It isn't at all uncommon for there to be gigantic potholes, and drivers swerve around them in whichever direction seems most convenient... often running off the road or into incoming traffic while doing so at highway speeds. At one point on the drive, I saw the aftermath of a three-truck collision, and one of the rigs had recently finished burning... there was little left of the tires but smouldering rims. One of the other trucks had tipped over and dumped a backhoe upside down in the middle of the road, and a guy in a matatu (Nissan van) was trying in vain to tip it upright with a short length of chain.

In any case, 10 hours is probably more realistic, and I recommend taking a plane if you can. It will definately be easier if you rent gear.

Unfortunately, most people who say that they didn't like it get shouted down here on SB.

Unfortunately, the same is true of those who say they do like BP/W. You risk being called a drone, get accused of trying to brainwash people into using gear that's alleged to be dangerous, and end up causing perfectly good threads to be hijacked by a dozen people who think posting "Here we go again with the BP/W crowd" is a useful contribution.

In a nutshell, a Wing is fine while horizontal underwater, but when vertical (such as at the surface), the BP/W's rear buoyancy bias becomes a small imbalance.

The only time I'm vertical in mine is when I stand up. On the surface, I either recline on my back or snorkle face-down. On my back, my head is well out of the water, and I'm very stable in that position.

I don't dispute that a BP/W is the correct configuration that is need for heavy steel doubles for tech/cave diving. However, I am concerned that the highly vocal SB Wing Fan Club (SBWFC) subscribes to the opinion that effectively argues that it makes sense to buy the tech gear on Day 1 because "everyone" will eventually become a technical diver wearing doubles and thus need it. Thanks, but tech isn't even 20% of the diving public, let alone 80%, to financially justify such an approach.

Personally, I just love the gear, and wish I'd started with it sooner. It may well be ideal for cave dives, but I'm not a cave diver. I am trained for deco, but I do single tank recreational dives 4/5 of the time, and I can't see ever going back to a jacket unless I'm without my gear and temporarily unable to rent one.

I don't at all think that "everyone will become a tech diver", but I do know that a lot of divers with tech training who wish that they knew earlier about gear that would have served them well as a recreational diver, and which wouldn't need to be traded in if they ever persued more advanced training.

Yes, I'm ready to go back to a Jacket. Only problem is that I need the SBWFC guys to put their money where their mouth is, to pony up $500 to buy my current Wing setup so that I won't catch as much grief from my wife about the money I wasted on it.

I didn't spend $500 on my rig when it was new, and I don't have any problems with it's stability. Why would I spend more than I paid new for something used that the current owner doesn't like? I don't remember ever putting my mouth there.

Finally, I don't dispute that there's some lousy Jacket designs out there. But these are mostly designs from more a decade ago. And the fact that the "taco" problem exists with some Wings with single tanks illustrates that no system is perfect.

Yeah, there are bad BCs of all types, and I don't think you'll find anyone saying that "all BP/W rigs are perfect." Even the best wings are terrible with the wrong gear configurations, and some wings are just terrible in general. When you have the right wing for your needs though, it can be amazingly good. The difference between a bad wing and a bad jacket is that you can easily replace a wing with the right one for the job without having to completely replace your system. It does require making informed decisions though.

 

[FastPirate]

Personally, I just love the gear, and wish I'd started with it sooner. It may well
Yeah, there are bad BCs of all types, and I don't think you'll find anyone saying that "all BP/W rigs are perfect." Most wings are terrible with certain gear configurations, and other wings are just terrible in general. When you have the right wing for your needs though, it can be amazingly good. The difference between a bad wing and a bad jacket is that you can easily replace a wing with the right one for the job without having to completely replace your system. It does require making informed decisions though.

do you think the stuff ive chosen is good?

 

[MSilvia]

I haven't ever used it, but it definately looks like it would do the job. I think it'll work well for you, and it should be a long time before you'd ever find it inadequate. It has a little bit more lift than you need, but it looks like it should be pretty managable. Frankly, it looks like nicer stuff than I started with. My first BCD was a used Seaquest Spectrum III I got on eBay.

 

[Piro]

I personally dont like Oceanic regs from a breathing point, but then again im spoiled on a Atomic M1, Oceanic is great gear, my uncle has an Oceanic BC and the only thing to ever go wrong with it in 3 years is the knife that came with it, and that was only becuase it had a plastic clip which broke. I love his BC, his BC is unfortunately not a "travel" BC, so its a bit big for my Carryon Bag or i would have an Oceanic BC.

As for the LDS, i would look for a new one, and say "Hey. You had your shot for me to buy stuff from you in hte future, you blew that when you told me if i buy gear of the internet i should go **** myself" If he is actibg like that A) he has an established clientell which pay out of their nose for his stuff or B) he doesnt like what he does. Either way look for a new LDS

Scuba.com is my favorite site to compare prices and set up stuff, heck sitting in classes in university if the professor starts to drone on and on ill get on SB or scuba.com

Have fun in Africa.

 

[Captain12Pk]

Though I've never purchased any life support equipment from Scuba.com, I have purchased lots of other stuff from them. Additionally I have been in & out of their shop many times and they have ALWAYS been more than helpful. To the point that we were recently discussing my (soon to be purchased from them) newest set of doubles. I had some concerns as to pressure ratings and stamping... nonetheless, there response was even though the tanks would be special order, if I wasn't happy with them when they arrived, they'd be happy to give me my money back.
Of all the things you have to woory about, I highly doubt that Scuba.com's service need to be one of them.
... and yeah, definately dump that other LDS.

 

[Puffer Fish]

That's funny -- I work with lots brand new divers all the time who have never worn a jacket, they have only ever used a BP/W in their basic OW class and they never have any issues.

You obviously did not read any of the accident threads.

Use one tank, one style of BP/W and you are absolutely fine. Change the tank - say from a AL80 to a LP steel, or even the size, and you can have major issues.

With mine, it is a face plant with a AL80, unless I weight the tank, all the way to laying on my back with an 8" lp steel.

I've not seen anyone that is not effected by this, only people that don't know or don't understand the issue. Sadly, in the wrong place, it can be a major issue.

If you are vertical in the water on the surface with a specific tank, don't expect that to be true with others.

It is not some much that it happens, but that people don't expect it (like your comment).

It is easy to get around 15 lbs difference, so if you don't have the different tanks, just take an AL80, dive with it low on air (around 1,000 psi), then attach 15 lbs to the back of it and try it again... if you don't see a difference...I would suggest giving up diving.

 

[TheRedHead]

That's harsh, Puff.

 

[Puffer Fish]

That's harsh, Puff.

Your right Red... but we have a very recent thread where one of the major factors in a drowning death was due to being tipped backwards, unexpectedly when using a Steel LP and BP/W. I wonder if they got that wisdom to not worry about it from this board. As the first step in a panic invironment is to have something completely unexpected happen, sadly, it was the first step down a very bad path.

We know this was a major shock, because her partner also was effected by it.

 

[John_B]

There had to be other issues, Puffer. Link?

John