My LDS recommended me a no-brand inexpensive octopus (in view of budget) for a new regulator (TX50) I bought from him. He said he will adjust the octo's IP (what's that?) so that it will not freeflow easily. Is he right? So my question is to get or not to get in view of budget? Thanks
Octopus question
- Thread starter kinetic
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art.chick
Contributor
Many people think of the octo as being there for "the other guy," not for themselves. They also feel pretty confident that they will never actually have to use it because they plan to be very careful themsleves. Yes, I understand budgets (have economized on many diving & non-diving things this year - lousy darn economy!) but whether or not you actually have to depend upon that Octo is NOT in your control.
The "adjustment" he is talking about will make it harder to breathe from. That will only increase the panic in an Out of Air situation. I almost bought a cheapy Octo myself recently, but after having a real OOA emergency with a buddy last weekend, I thank God that I purchased a high-quality easy-breathing octo! (Those flat-ish things are a waste of money; so hard to breathe from!) If my buddy had been straining to breathe after running out of his own supply, his instict would have been to grab my reg.
Another situation that will make you glad you have a good octo is if anything ever happens to your reg on a dive. I have seen a friend simply reach for her own octo to finish a dive that started with an operational reg. Redundancy means nothing if the back-up equipment is little more than a decoration to fulfill a requirement. Economize elsewhere!
The "adjustment" he is talking about will make it harder to breathe from. That will only increase the panic in an Out of Air situation. I almost bought a cheapy Octo myself recently, but after having a real OOA emergency with a buddy last weekend, I thank God that I purchased a high-quality easy-breathing octo! (Those flat-ish things are a waste of money; so hard to breathe from!) If my buddy had been straining to breathe after running out of his own supply, his instict would have been to grab my reg.
Another situation that will make you glad you have a good octo is if anything ever happens to your reg on a dive. I have seen a friend simply reach for her own octo to finish a dive that started with an operational reg. Redundancy means nothing if the back-up equipment is little more than a decoration to fulfill a requirement. Economize elsewhere!
What art.chick said.
2 other things to contemplate:
See the discussion in http://www.scubaboard.com/t10022/s.html for a lot of posts about a different way to handle an OOA situation that allows you to buy a less expensive (but still not cheap) regulator as a backup (no longer called an "octo" in this configuration) and the OOA diver gets your primary with its excellent performance.
Secondly, question the integrity of any dive shop that preaches that the octo is for an OOA diver (this is an emergency life-and-death situation, mind you) and then talks you into a cheap, poorly performing regulator to give to that person whos in a life-and-death situation! This is the reg that you're going to hand to someone starved for air that really, really needs a good performing regulator. It's REQUIRED that it have excellent performance so it can't be overbreathed for those first few desperate gasps of air they're going to take from it.
BTW, if you mention donating your primary or heaven forbid diving with a long hose, your dive shop may dismiss it as either dangerous (giving up your primary) or technical (the long hose). Neither are true and if mentioned will expose that the shops also ignorant.
Roak
Ps. If you follow the link I posted above you'll see that I'm the 9th reply in the note. My point #2 *exactly* points out what the shop told you. In other words this is nothing new, and is a severe problem with many, many shops (selling cheap octos).
2 other things to contemplate:
See the discussion in http://www.scubaboard.com/t10022/s.html for a lot of posts about a different way to handle an OOA situation that allows you to buy a less expensive (but still not cheap) regulator as a backup (no longer called an "octo" in this configuration) and the OOA diver gets your primary with its excellent performance.
Secondly, question the integrity of any dive shop that preaches that the octo is for an OOA diver (this is an emergency life-and-death situation, mind you) and then talks you into a cheap, poorly performing regulator to give to that person whos in a life-and-death situation! This is the reg that you're going to hand to someone starved for air that really, really needs a good performing regulator. It's REQUIRED that it have excellent performance so it can't be overbreathed for those first few desperate gasps of air they're going to take from it.
BTW, if you mention donating your primary or heaven forbid diving with a long hose, your dive shop may dismiss it as either dangerous (giving up your primary) or technical (the long hose). Neither are true and if mentioned will expose that the shops also ignorant.
Roak
Ps. If you follow the link I posted above you'll see that I'm the 9th reply in the note. My point #2 *exactly* points out what the shop told you. In other words this is nothing new, and is a severe problem with many, many shops (selling cheap octos).
Spectre
Contributor
When I upgraded to the ATX-50, I left my Mares Axis octo. I had the sensitivity of the octo adjusted 3 times, and it still bubbled after one or two dives. It started getting annoying and I'm always nervous it's going to free flow.
My LDS just called about 5 minutes ago, my ATX-40 Octo just came in yesterday.
So do you want to spend $100 on the chance that you won't have to spend another $160 later?
MgicTwnger
Contributor
Just ask yourself: How would you feel if you had to breathe your buddy's el cheapo octo?
canuckton
Registered
All good points.
But a "cheapo" octo may actually be quite a good reg. For instance, I knew one shop selling super-cheap octos and they turned out to be made by Kirby-Morgan (fantastic stuff) and worked better than many primaries.
Spectre, you are a bit of an exception...Apeks regs are a bit overpressurized, and making a Mares octo (built for very low IP's and with a large orifice) work with them require a LOT of detuning. Apeks with Apeks, I allus say.
All that said, I recommend avid divers to keep a slightly (notice I say slightly) detuned primary as an octopus. That is, in fact, what many octos amount to. USD octos have a tougher spring. R190's use a plastic orifice. Apeks octos lack spring adjustments.
It is true that the "flat" style of octo's (such as the USD LPO and the Sherwood Silhouette Octo) breathe like dogs. An unfortunate combination of short lever, strong spring, and small diaphragm.
But they are reliable, which is why you find them on so much rental gear.
The best option is to buy two *adjustable* primaries...and then keep the one on a longer hose detuned for your buddy. This is of course, if you are diving standard recreational configuration. I would recommend very different equipment for technical or DIR divers, who are a large part of my clientele.
Another reason octos sometimes seem to be "worse" than primaries is because there is no venturi channel on the octopus ports of most diaphragm regulators.
Just my twenty cents.
C
But a "cheapo" octo may actually be quite a good reg. For instance, I knew one shop selling super-cheap octos and they turned out to be made by Kirby-Morgan (fantastic stuff) and worked better than many primaries.
Spectre, you are a bit of an exception...Apeks regs are a bit overpressurized, and making a Mares octo (built for very low IP's and with a large orifice) work with them require a LOT of detuning. Apeks with Apeks, I allus say.
All that said, I recommend avid divers to keep a slightly (notice I say slightly) detuned primary as an octopus. That is, in fact, what many octos amount to. USD octos have a tougher spring. R190's use a plastic orifice. Apeks octos lack spring adjustments.
It is true that the "flat" style of octo's (such as the USD LPO and the Sherwood Silhouette Octo) breathe like dogs. An unfortunate combination of short lever, strong spring, and small diaphragm.
But they are reliable, which is why you find them on so much rental gear.
The best option is to buy two *adjustable* primaries...and then keep the one on a longer hose detuned for your buddy. This is of course, if you are diving standard recreational configuration. I would recommend very different equipment for technical or DIR divers, who are a large part of my clientele.
Another reason octos sometimes seem to be "worse" than primaries is because there is no venturi channel on the octopus ports of most diaphragm regulators.
Just my twenty cents.
C
Spectre
Contributor
The reason I bring up the Apeks point is because kinetic mentions TX-50. I'm assuming he's referring to an Apeks TX-50... So he probably falls in the 'exception' category as well...
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