Octo holder

[mgmonk]

"DIR" stands for "Doing it Right," and is a trademarked name for the style of diving promoted by the agency called "Global Underwater Explorers," or "GUE."

Gotcha

After I asked, I did some research of my own.

Came across

http://www.cavediver.net/archives/Gear/hogarthian.htm

about the hogarthian system


http://www.ue-uk.org/articles/Bob_C_The_DIR_Equipment_Configuration/

and this about the gear config

Seems to me that Hogarthian goes outside the realm of diving and into life (ie hoistic approach, etc.)
Would you say that's a fair assement?

I do have to say, upon initial readiong, I have little to argue against it other than the (as you called it) "militancy" of the approach.

I'll be doing some more investgating...

 

[mgmonk]

Seems to me that Hogarthian goes outside the realm of diving and into life (ie hoistic approach, etc.)
Would you say that's a fair assement?

what's a hoistic approach, anyway?????

I meant hollistic, obviously, but the idea of a bunch of ho's and pimps gettin into the Hogarthian approach makes me laugh.

 

[SeaJay]

Gotcha

After I asked, I did some research of my own.

Came across

http://www.cavediver.net/archives/Gear/hogarthian.htm

about the hogarthian system


http://www.ue-uk.org/articles/Bob_C_The_DIR_Equipment_Configuration/

and this about the gear config

Good articles - both of them.

Seems to me that Hogarthian goes outside the realm of diving and into life (ie hoistic approach, etc.)
Would you say that's a fair assement?

Yes, although that's hardly the point of Hogarthian-style diving. The fact that it affects "the rest of your life" is only a by-product of diving Hogarthian.

...And I would argue that I don't have a "rest of my life." I am a diver. I am a diver every moment of my life - when I'm not diving, I'm on surface interval.

...Which is a very different thought process from "normal," "recreational" diving.

I do have to say, upon initial readiong, I have little to argue against it other than the (as you called it) "militancy" of the approach.

Well, *I* don't think it's "militant." I said that it's been criticized as being "militant" by those that don't subscribe to the system. What they see is a bunch of guys with the same gear configurations, the same skill sets, and the same responses all doing the same thing... Hence, "militant."

I'll be doing some more investgating...

Congratulations for having an open mind.

 

[SeaJay]

what's a hoistic approach, anyway?????

I meant hollistic, obviously, but the idea of a bunch of ho's and pimps gettin into the Hogarthian approach makes me laugh.

Heh.

That's a great question. A lot of people think that "holistic" means "holy," as in the idea that it's some kind of religious thing. As such, I've heard people who don't understand say things about DIR or Hogarthian diving being some sort of "religion." LOL...

"Holistic" means that the diving is "all encompassing," or "complete." It's a word that accurately describes how the system works. One part relies on another for it's completeness, and it must be dived using all parts of the system to work properly.

For example, if someone were to decide to dive with a long hose primary, but still donate their backup in an OOA, then it'd show that they really missed the point of having a long hose on their primary regulator. Thus, it can be said that the long hose primary is properly matched to a short hosed, necklaced backup, which is only useful if the diver has the skill to be able to donate the primary out of their mouth. If they're missing any of these points, then the system does not work as advertised - and so these three components - the primary, the backup, and the skills to use them - are in a way holistic with one another.

The bottom line is that the whole Hogarthian system is that way... Every component depends on the other for completeness, and the entire thing really is only a tool - or a system of tools - that are designed to allow the diver to use his skills to manipulate his environment. Thus, the whole system is holistic.

...Which is why it makes no sense to have someone say that they're "50% DIR" or "90% DIR" or whatever. You can't be missing ten percent and have the system maintain it's integrity... Because it's holistic.

...Which is why those who are DIR (or Hogarthian) don't consider others DIR unless they've adopted the whole system.

...Which is why people get easily offended and think that DIR divers are "aloof" or "militant."

 

[mgmonk]

Heh.

That's a great question

That wasn 't my question

I was laughing at myself for typing hoistic.

I appreciat you taking your time to define it, though. I'm sure there are people reading this thas didn't know.

Just like I've been reading DIR for the last month having no clue what people are talking about

cheers

 

[SeaJay]

That wasn 't my question

I was laughing at myself for typing hoistic.

cheers

Ha! Duh... My eyes read "holistic" every time... I didn't even notice the typo.

...And back when I was first looking at DIR, I didn't know what "holistic" really meant, so it made sense that others didn't actually understand the term - or at least how it related to scuba systems - either.

 

[StSomewhere]

...
There's a variety of ways that people have managed to employ the long hose primary/short hose backup... The best I know is the Hogarthian method, which was adopted by the Global Underwater Explorers in a system that they call "DIR." There's two really cool things about the way they do it - one is that, routed properly, the hoses are actually MORE streamlined than the "short primary, long octo" method that you were taught in your Open Water class. ...

There's a variety of ways to learn the "long hose" method that DIR preaches... But the best way I know of is to find an expert in that area and ask them to help you.

In the meantime, you might be interested in a exerpt from the DIR III video that includes information about regulators and their configurations: http://www.deepsouthdivers.org/DIR3-3.wmv

OK, I'm intrigued. So can you translate using the long hose for a noob recreational diver unlikely to go the whole DIR approach or do cave diving any time soon?

I'd have a primary second stage on, say, a five or seven foot hose, and run that under my right arm. Isn't that still a lot of excess hose hanging around, or do you tether the excess somehow/somewhere?

Then you put your backup/secondary (what would otherwise be your octo) second stage on a short/standard length hose and tether that to a lightweight possibly breakaway? strap around your neck? Routing that under your right arm or over your right shoulder? So much for buying a low profile AL ABS or an Aeris Gyro octo I guess...

And continuing to "unlearn" my brand new OW skills, the primary gets a yellow hose? Or a yellow purge cover? Nothing yellow at all? What clues the OOA diver to grab my primary reg (besides sheer survival instincts)?

Or am I just asking for trouble using a different configuration than the "average recreational diver" with otherwise "standard" off-the-shelf jacket BC, console, (slate, fish ID guide, uw mp3 player, etc. )?

 

[OE2X]

OK, I'm intrigued. So can you translate using the long hose for a noob recreational diver unlikely to go the whole DIR approach or do cave diving any time soon?

I'd have a primary second stage on, say, a five or seven foot hose, and run that under my right arm. Isn't that still a lot of excess hose hanging around, or do you tether the excess somehow/somewhere?

Then you put your backup/secondary (what would otherwise be your octo) second stage on a short/standard length hose and tether that to a lightweight possibly breakaway? strap around your neck? Routing that under your right arm or over your right shoulder? So much for buying a low profile AL ABS or an Aeris Gyro octo I guess...

And continuing to "unlearn" my brand new OW skills, the primary gets a yellow hose? Or a yellow purge cover? Nothing yellow at all? What clues the OOA diver to grab my primary reg (besides sheer survival instincts)?

Or am I just asking for trouble using a different configuration than the "average recreational diver" with otherwise "standard" off-the-shelf jacket BC, console, (slate, fish ID guide, uw mp3 player, etc. )?

It's not a matter of unlearning your skills. It's more about building on what you have already learned and adopting a new skill set that is better thought out than the standard rec. style.
You don't need to be a tech or a cave diver to utilize this configuration. Many of us are just recreational divers that have come to the conclusion that using a 7' hose in an OOA situation is best.

The extra length of hose on your primary is routed under your right arm and then tucked into our cumberbun. If you get a HID can light then you route it under that. Most of us don't worry about about the yellow coding on the hose or the regulator face plate. If someone goes OOA then they are likely to grab your primary out of your mouth or signal you. In any event you donate your primary. Your secondary gets routed over your right shoulder and bungied off around your neck. Many of us like to have our secondary be the the same type of reg as our primary. In my case that means another Scubapro S600 or ATX 200. Trust me - the normal sized reg doesn't get in your way tucked under your chin.

The only thing that will get you into trouble is not practicing with this configuration. In nearly 30 years of diving I have not had an OOA situation. With that said - every few dives I make sure to practice one with my buddy. If someone goes OOA I want training and muscle memory to kick in. I also average about 5 dives a week, so it is easy for me to incorporate this skill drill into a dive.

Another thing is to make sure that your primary hose is always easily deployable. My buddies and I always do a modified S drill (OOA drill) on the surface before going under at the start of the dive. In my case I use a can light and I route the light head under my long hose when I'm under water. You want to keep clipped off items from crossing over the 7' hose. If you are using a console make sure it is clipped off to your left waist D ring or left shoulder D ring. If you are using retractors, MP 3 players and all the other normal crap that your LDS likes to market again make sure that it does not cross over the hose. Lastly you will be able to get rid of your snorkel. You don't want one of these in the way should you have to deploy your primary.

I dive with recreational configured divers all the time. In our diveplan talk I always ask if they are familiar with my setup? I will then do an S drill so that they have an idea of what to expect. As a new OW diver you will want to include doing a dive plan before going under. Ours is max depth, where, how long, turn pressure, what each person is diving for a tank, Nitrox percentage, what their fill pressure is and what safety gear we each have. That may include where our car keys are located, cell phone and emergency contact info etc... We also do a bubble check on our valves and inflator hoses at the surface. A few weeks ago, a buddy had to change out a tank because of a faulty O ring. Better to know that at the surface than to have it go at 100' and depressurize his tank.

 

[kenlt]

The extra length of hose on your primary is routed under your right arm and then tucked into our cumberbun.

I'm trying to picture that. It would seem that the hose would have to make a pretty good kink to get the reg in your mouth comfortably. Someone referenced having some sort of 45 degree connector on his reg, do you use something like that?

Or am I just picturing it wrong and it fits fine?

Thanks.

Ken

 

[SeaJay]

Swivel connectors are not only unecessary, but advised against. To put it bluntly, they're a pain in the neck once they get a little worn.

Here's how the routing goes: The backup second stage is routed like the primary second stage is normally routed on a basic open water rig. The hose is a bit shorter, though, at just 22"... And there's a piece of bungee or surgical tubing that's attached to the mouthpiece of the second stage underneath of the zip-tie that holds the mouthpiece on. That way, the bungee is worn like a necklace, and is always situated "right there" so you can simply pick it up and swing it upright into your mouth. Skilled divers can even train themselves to do this without using their hands... They simply reach down with their mouth and grab the reg off their chest. This gives them the ability to switch to a backup without using their hands, which can be especailly useful if your hands are already full with lift bags, lights, or paniked buddies. Of course, the "necklace" part must be kept short to accomplish this, and is the reason for bungee or surgical tubing rather than a non-stretchy material like cave line or string.

The primary second stage has either a 5 foot, 6 foot, or 7 foot hose on it. If it's a 5-footer, the hose is simply routed off of the first stage (like "normal"), under the right armpit of the diver, across the chest and up and around the left, backside of the neck of the diver... Coming around and ending in the mouth of the diver from the right side, just like a standard basic open water rig... Except that the hose makes a much smaller, more streamlined "loop" over the diver's right shoulder. To donate, a diver simply hands his buddy his regulator, which pops over the back of the diver's head and allows a full five feet of hose to be utilized. Despite the way it sounds, no, there is no way to get it "tangled" or have it "choke" the donating diver.

A seven foot hose is routed exactly the same way, but the excess length is then tucked into the cummerbund (or waist strap) of the harness/BC on the diver's right hip. Seven feet allows a pair of divers to leave a location in a single file during an OOA... Which is important to be able to do during cave diving or wreck diving... But the skill can be beneficial to divers of even the most basic caliber.

A six foot hose is a sort of "halfway point" between the five footer and the seven footer. On really short people, the seven footer allows for too much slack in the part that wraps around the diver, and on really tall people the five footer may actually dig into the armpit of a diver that doesn't tuck.

...The bottom line is that seven feet is the standard, and the solution for diving in all sorts of situations. If you can't tuck, then consider a five footer if you're under 6' tall, and a six footer if you're over 6'. If you can tuck and you're under 5'4", consider the six footer.

I hope that clears it up. See http://www.deepsouthdivers.org/DIR3-3.wmv for more information.