Hey all, looking very hard at these two masks. Have always been leaning towards Gdiver, but everytime I watch any documentaries all I can see are Guardians. It will be mainly lakes and quarries and wanting for coms. Always felt Guardians would be way bulkier than the Gdiver. Just looking for opinions, advice, and suggestions on these two masks. Thanks in advance.
Ocean Reef gDiver vs OTS Guardian
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I've dove and taught both, both are very good. You could say the OTS is more "commercial" and the G diver is more "recreational". But that's debatable. Do take a look at the Spectrum by OTS, a simple FFM that uses your current regs to keep cost low. For the right price I'd pick either.
I have been reading good things about the OTS Spectrum mask. Aside from a much lower cost, it allows you to use your own regulator.
@The Chairman started posting his experiences with it here: Considering OTS Full Face Mask
@The Chairman started posting his experiences with it here: Considering OTS Full Face Mask
I just bought two of the g.diver's about a month ago. I've never seen an OTS mask in person so I can't really compare. All the shops in my town that sell any kind of FFM sell the ocean reef product.
I like the mask, but it takes a lot of getting used to vs standard reg and mask. More than I expected, really - especially since I've rented one of these before. I've got 11 dives on mine now and I'm just starting to get to the comfort level where I can think about the dive more than operation of the mask again. I can't imagine that a different brand is going to change this.
I got the surface air valve and single channel communications options. A misunderstanding on my part on the operation of the surface air valve led to a lot of frustration when I took the mask on a trip to Roatan last month. I ended up giving up after a few dives and switching back to regular mask/reg for most of the trip. When I got back I figured out my stupid mistake and resumed using the mask.
The radio on the ocean reef has a really crappy attachment mechanism. It's attached to the mask by a thin strip of clear plastic. I managed to break the attachment on a shore dive two weeks ago. Fortunately, the piece is very cheap to replace (I think it's like $10 or $15). I'll be sure to get extras. I was thinking of going to the local hackerspace and using the laser cutter to make a replacement out of a more robust material. It might even be worth designing and having someone produce a metal one. But that is firmly in the realm of DIY modifications, and not everyone's cup of tea.
Something I didn't think about until after I bought the mask is SMB operation. The ones I own require me to put my mouth on it and blow to inflate. Obviously that's a problem with FFM. I'm going to have to order replacements with the open end so I can use my alternate to inflate the SMB.
Another comment. With a $800 second stage on my regulator, I find myself being very very careful. It's a little different than having a much less expensive scubapro S600 on the end.
RE: Pricing. Go to a dive shop that sells them. There was tons of room to negotiate off of MSRP. It's not like the dealer was pulling one over on the manufacturer because the manufacturer rep was right there while we settled on a price (it was a demo day at the LDS). I got mask, + SAV options + faceplate cover + comms for $800 each in total (plus local sales tax). $100 less than I've seen them advertised on internet sites. I bought two, and so spent a lot of time searching for a deal.
The only options I didn't buy were the bubble diverter (I think I may go back and get this) and the miflex hose they sell. It's a lot like the diverter on a standard regulator. Bubbles constantly going up the edge of the mask are a little annoying and I'm hoping a diverter will help. I was tempted to rig up something like a kraken using some small tubing attached to the exhaust. That won't look very pretty so I'm probably going to try a standard diverter first. I already had miflex hoses (the mask uses standard reg hoses) and I added a swivel.
Another comment: They are very bulky for travel. It's manageable, but not what I'd call convenient.
I like the mask, but it takes a lot of getting used to vs standard reg and mask. More than I expected, really - especially since I've rented one of these before. I've got 11 dives on mine now and I'm just starting to get to the comfort level where I can think about the dive more than operation of the mask again. I can't imagine that a different brand is going to change this.
I got the surface air valve and single channel communications options. A misunderstanding on my part on the operation of the surface air valve led to a lot of frustration when I took the mask on a trip to Roatan last month. I ended up giving up after a few dives and switching back to regular mask/reg for most of the trip. When I got back I figured out my stupid mistake and resumed using the mask.
The radio on the ocean reef has a really crappy attachment mechanism. It's attached to the mask by a thin strip of clear plastic. I managed to break the attachment on a shore dive two weeks ago. Fortunately, the piece is very cheap to replace (I think it's like $10 or $15). I'll be sure to get extras. I was thinking of going to the local hackerspace and using the laser cutter to make a replacement out of a more robust material. It might even be worth designing and having someone produce a metal one. But that is firmly in the realm of DIY modifications, and not everyone's cup of tea.
Something I didn't think about until after I bought the mask is SMB operation. The ones I own require me to put my mouth on it and blow to inflate. Obviously that's a problem with FFM. I'm going to have to order replacements with the open end so I can use my alternate to inflate the SMB.
Another comment. With a $800 second stage on my regulator, I find myself being very very careful. It's a little different than having a much less expensive scubapro S600 on the end.
RE: Pricing. Go to a dive shop that sells them. There was tons of room to negotiate off of MSRP. It's not like the dealer was pulling one over on the manufacturer because the manufacturer rep was right there while we settled on a price (it was a demo day at the LDS). I got mask, + SAV options + faceplate cover + comms for $800 each in total (plus local sales tax). $100 less than I've seen them advertised on internet sites. I bought two, and so spent a lot of time searching for a deal.
The only options I didn't buy were the bubble diverter (I think I may go back and get this) and the miflex hose they sell. It's a lot like the diverter on a standard regulator. Bubbles constantly going up the edge of the mask are a little annoying and I'm hoping a diverter will help. I was tempted to rig up something like a kraken using some small tubing attached to the exhaust. That won't look very pretty so I'm probably going to try a standard diverter first. I already had miflex hoses (the mask uses standard reg hoses) and I added a swivel.
Another comment: They are very bulky for travel. It's manageable, but not what I'd call convenient.
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Kelemvor, thanks for your reply on this. I'm really on the fence for a ffm but I'm slightly on the high side for air consumption. I have heard that FFM's increase your sac rate and while I'm getting better, I really don't want to shorten a dive if I don't have to.
Good point about a SMB, never thought about that.
As you are getting used to your mask, have you noticed a change in you air usage?
Thanks in advance for your response.
Jay
Good point about a SMB, never thought about that.
As you are getting used to your mask, have you noticed a change in you air usage?
Thanks in advance for your response.
Jay
Oh yeah, my SAC is through the roof right now. I haven't actually downloaded any FFM dives to calculate it but there is no doubt it's way way up. I think most of that is getting used to it. I'm less comfortable, which increases my breathing rate. I'm also exhausting tons of air as I'm making adjustments left and right - again wasting tons of air. I think I have heard that once you get everything dialed in, SAC rates should be comparable to a "normal" second stage.
I wouldn't be surprised to calculate and find dives approaching 2.0. I'm gonna have to go out and grab my computer from the garage now
Like I said, I'm under the impression my sac will come back down in time. If this high of a SAC was normal, it wouldn't be worthwhile to use a FFM at all.
Commercial divers are taught to breath deeply in order to reduce CO2 build-up. Hats and FFMs all have more dead air space than a mouthpiece and there is a natural tendency to breathe through your nose. Breathing through your nose is not a problem in itself but the shallow more frequent breaths that we are used to isn't enough at higher gas densities and while immersed. Elevated CO2 stimulates increased respiration so RMV increases. Training yourself to breathe deeply and slowly should help.
People tend to be "chest breathers", meaning that the chest mussels do most of the work. You want to use your diaphragm more for more effective ventilation. Your stomach needs to move, not just the pectoral muscles.
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