O2 Kit for Personal Boat --- Questions!

[sandiegoaes]

Those MTVs are damned expensive.

And most people don't know how to use them properly.

The MTVs are nice, don't get me wrong. But they take practice to use, are too expensive, need to be serviced, etc...

After teaching the DAN course for years, I honestly think that most lay people are better off with a non-rebreather mask for 99% of the situations that they will encounter. A BVM would be better to avoid lung overinflation issues. Some people will say that a BVM wastes oxygen. My response to that is "Bring more oxygen tanks" if you are doing that remote of diving.

 

[Imla]

And most people don't know how to use them properly.

The MTVs are nice, don't get me wrong. But they take practice to use, are too expensive, need to be serviced, etc...

After teaching the DAN course for years, I honestly think that most lay people are better off with a non-rebreather mask for 99% of the situations that they will encounter. A BVM would be better to avoid lung overinflation issues. Some people will say that a BVM wastes oxygen. My response to that is "Bring more oxygen tanks" if you are doing that remote of diving.

Unless you are a trained professional, a simple mouth-to-mask with O2 connector will be infinitely better than a Bag/ValveMask. Ventilating with a bag and keeping free airways is a specialist task that takes regular practice to do properly!

 

[Cthippo]

You can do damage with a BVM in a way you can't with a NRB or mouth to mask. We have to really hammer on providers NOT to fully squeeze the bag and over-ventilate patients.

 

[MB NZ]

BVM is not brain surgery, but it does need a little training. You would really have to be going some to cause a hyperinflation injury, but never doubting the limit of human stupidity is reasonable. Suppose you came across an unconscious, non-breathing diver, wouldn't you want one? Seems like a small, low cost item to add to the kit when you're hauling around O2 cylinders.

By the way, I've never come across the MTV-100. Looks great!

 

[Imla]

BVM is not brain surgery, but it does need a little training. You would really have to be going some to cause a hyperinflation injury, but never doubting the limit of human stupidity is reasonable. Suppose you came across an unconscious, non-breathing diver, wouldn't you want one? Seems like a small, low cost item to add to the kit when you're hauling around O2 cylinders.

By the way, I've never come across the MTV-100. Looks great!

I would want one... But I am a trained professional. The problem is NOT so much overinflation injuries, but rather the inability to keep airways free. Keeping airways free with one hand is challenging for professionals used to doing it. For "anymanonthestreet" it can be down right impossible, It is a false security and a Lærdalsmask (Mouth to mask) technique is superior as it will give both hands free to keep a tight seal and free airways. The consequence of not using a BVM correctly can be a)not getting air in at all, b) getting air the wrong place and consequently triggering vomit and aspiration.
The people wanting and needing the BVM, with training to use one, will bring their own...

 

[MB NZ]

I would want one... But I am a trained professional. The problem is NOT so much overinflation injuries, but rather the inability to keep airways free. Keeping airways free with one hand is challenging for professionals used to doing it. For "anymanonthestreet" it can be down right impossible, It is a false security and a Lærdalsmask (Mouth to mask) technique is superior as it will give both hands free to keep a tight seal and free airways. The consequence of not using a BVM correctly can be a)not getting air in at all, b) getting air the wrong place and consequently triggering vomit and aspiration.
The people wanting and needing the BVM, with training to use one, will bring their own...

All fair points. At what people do lay people get to learn these things if the want to?

 

[Imla]

All fair points. At what people do lay people get to learn these things if the want to?

The point here is that using a BVM system properly and proficiently requires regular training/use, preferably on real people. This is not feasable/doable for a lay person to achieve. In Norway, even nurses are taught to use a MTMask in case of emergency as the only people using BVM enough to actually maintain proper technique are (nurse)anaesthetists and paramedics.
My personal opinion, in a diving setting, a BVM is complicating and removes focus from low threshold simple tools that often works a lot better in an emergency. A BVM is magic in an intubated patient. In the field with limited resources, a MTMask/withO2nipple is golden. Virtually no failure points/valves that screw up. Easier function. Less cost. Low threshold for proper use.
Leave the BVM to the professionals!

 

[MB NZ]

Good points Imla. Most hospital staff can't seem to perform this simple task, so maybe it's a step too far asking lay people to do it in an emergency.

 

[mrtechbench]

Unless you are a trained professional, a simple mouth-to-mask with O2 connector will be infinitely better than a Bag/ValveMask. Ventilating with a bag and keeping free airways is a specialist task that takes regular practice to do properly!

What is recommended for someone who usually quarry dives not super far from aid and has a partial al40 of o2 but hasn't taken CPR for about 8 years (know its probably time to take cpr again, thinking of dedicating al80 to o2) which of the 3 rescueean kits do you recommend, the cheapest one?

 

[tursiops]

Good points Imla. Most hospital staff can't seem to perform this simple task, so maybe it's a step too far asking lay people to do it in an emergency.

The DAN training for a BVM is a two-person skill; one is focussed on maintaining the seal and airway. Most of the concerns above about how it is so difficult to use are mitigated by having the second (trained) rescuer.