NSS-CDS Full Cave: The Live-Blog

[rddvet]

Everyone, this is called “the live blog” - @dewdropsonrosa was excited (and brave) enough to share her progression through her training with us. While I recognize the zero-to-hero course attempt is something a lot of us don’t think is a good idea, she’s already acknowledged that is no longer her goal.

Personally, I appreciate her candidness, and believe her sharing can insightful for others considering this path in the future. That is, if the rest of us don’t chase her off and she continues to post.

But this thread getting kind of critical in even though it was supposed to be blog.... I would ask everyone who is posting to remember when they first started taking their cave training, how they would have felt if they were documenting that experience and then before they even got half-way through the class, the thread turned into what this one has. She didn’t ask for our opinions, and she is coming to some similar realizations on her own. There is no need for us to beat her about the head as she seems like a very intelligent, reasonable person/diver, can we maybe consider if the negative posts are really critical, and weigh them against continued posts from the OP? I’d really like to read about the rest of her training.

I agree that its an enjoyable read and I appreciate her candidness. I also agree its helpful for others but so is the commentary. There are some things happening that arent ideal and theres no issue in highlighting that because its just as importan. Its an open discussion and I’ve never intended anything to be rude to her. But there are things that need to be pointed out and it seems alot agree because quite a few people have reached out to me in agreeance. It takes guts to be open about everything going on i her class. Just because the title says its a “blog” doesnt mean it shouldnt be open to commentary and constructive criticism.

 

[lv2dive]

I don’t totally disagree with you, but I would say the focus of the thread should be her blog not criticism of the class, or we will likely run her off, and that doesn’t benefit anyone. We can always start new threads to discuss portions of the thread about which we have concerns, yeah?

I agree that its an enjoyable read and I appreciate her candidness. I also agree its helpful for others but so is the commentary. There are some things happening that arent ideal and theres no issue in highlighting that because its just as importan. Its an open discussion and I’ve never intended anything to be rude to her. But there are things that need to be pointed out and it seems alot agree because quite a few people have reached out to me in agreeance. It takes guts to be open about everything going on i her class. Just because the title says its a “blog” doesnt mean it shouldnt be open to commentary and constructive criticism.

 

[Compressor]

Personally, I appreciate her candidness, and believe her sharing can insightful for others considering this path in the future. That is, if the rest of us don’t chase her off and she continues to post.

I was just going to post about @dewdropsonrosa candid thoughts and courage.

But this thread getting kind of critical in even though it was supposed to be blog.... I would ask everyone who is posting to remember when they first started taking their cave training, how they would have felt if they were documenting that experience and then before they even got half-way through the class, the thread turned into what this one has. She didn’t ask for our opinions, and she is coming to some similar realizations on her own. There is no need for us to beat her about the head as she seems like a very intelligent, reasonable person/diver, can we maybe consider if the negative posts are really critical, and weigh them against continued posts from the OP? I’d really like to read about the rest of her training.

@dewdropsonrosa is a courages young woman who I believe is very strong mentally. To admit weaknesses and for example call a dive or admit fatigue is NOT a sign of weakness but strength. I remember doing a dive workshop with @Trace Malinowski and during the briefing between dives I realized that Trace is going to be talking to me for a while. With the wind howling at 20-30 mph and temp in low 60s, I stopped Trace and told him to allow me to get in warm clothes. That was the best thing I did as when the time came for the next dive, I had warmed up quite a bit and could function.

So kudos to you @dewdropsonrosa for taking such a clean honorable path to cave certification. I really think that if you have a good instructor (like you appear to have), just taking the course is enough accomplishment. If you pass good, if you don't you can finish later. It's not a big deal.

 

[tursiops]

I have really appreciated this blog. I look forward to meeting @dewdropsonrosa someday; I want to congratulate her on her mental attitude and her willingness to share the experience, and hope to dive with her.

I failed my first Full Cave course....I was Intro (NACD, remember them?) and went to High Springs to do Full. My head and body were just not into it and it showed. A lot. I left with Apprentice, got that renewed a year later, and then after another year got Full. I'm Wakulla Bronze and Abe Davis now, have had the good fortune to cave-dive in three countries. Taking time was my friend. It was worth it.

 

[Marie13]

I’ve dived with @dewdropsonrosa - I don’t believe anyone else here has. We did our SM class together in late July and then spent August and September (our October planned charters were mostly blown out) diving Lake Michigan wrecks as buddies for multiple dives each weekend.

She knows how to handle herself underwater very well. She is a very safe diver. She also knows her limits and doesn’t hesitate to call a dive.

 

[Schwob]

I don’t totally disagree with you, but I would say the focus of the thread should be her blog not criticism of the class, or we will likely run her off, and that doesn’t benefit anyone. We can always start new threads to discuss portions of the thread about which we have concerns, yeah?

That.
Or running off others ... like me?
Nah, you won't...
and I am not worried about @dewdropsonrosa either...
but there is a point where advise to the diver (the blogger, the author / originator of the thread clearly goes a bit overboard to critique the instructor, part of it maybe a bit backhanded... and from the armchair blog reading position... albeit also from a position of very well versed cave divers and instructors possibly... That part, while interesting also, could i. e. be taken up in a direct discussion with the instructor instead or be publically be discussed in a thread for the purpose. Reading as a non insider and non caver (yet) it is also surprisingly hard to tell what is good info and really important and what is more of a difference in opinion ... and what is more approaching the airing of old disputes / dirty laundry. I am not saying at all that anyone is doing this here. I am saying for those like me that are really interested in this thread it is somewhere between hard and impossible to tell (and gives food for thought in all thinkable directions, including "why publically work out these differences here, is that how cave instructors work together ?) ... and does it really beling in this blog of @dewdropsonrosa in the first place?

 

[tursiops]

does it really beling in this blog of @dewdropsonrosa in the first place?

I wonder if there ought to be a special thread for blogs....with the OP deciding whether any input other than his/hers is allowed....or at least relegated to second-place status (at the end?) rather than threaded into the blog.

 

[lv2dive]

I think the majority of the people responding and liking posts in this thread are supportive of @dewdropsonrosa - most of the questions being asked / commentary are reasonable and well-intentioned. My post (as a fellow member) for everyone to consider her feelings was a preemptive request given the way the tone of the conversation was going.

I can see how commentary would be distracting during an already-challenging time period. So I can certainly understand why some people would decide to post after-the-fact.

 

[RayfromTX]

@dewdropsonrosa Thank you for allowing me to share in your journey. I am not ready yet for the leap you are attempting but I am on the path to get there. Your writing is pretty talented in that you painted a clear picture for me and the fact that you did it on the fly while resting for the next day's work is impressive. I kept a blog for a 7 month trip through north America and it was exhausting. It offered the folks back home a glimpse of what I was experiencing and it helps my memory of the feelings of those days even now.

You chose to post this in the technical diving section of this forum where moderation is less restrictive than in basic scuba and other "green zones". Some members appreciate the freedom to speak their minds in this forum without worrying about offending others. Our members represent a wide range of personalities. Some are more skilled at communicating effectively than others. While some members thrive on being criticized by strangers for their decisions, most do not. Personally I have a thin skin and a thick wall. That means I can easily tell when someone is talking down to me or disrespecting me and when it happens I just put up a wall or disengage. I'm not so unusual in that regard. The first requirement for communication is a willing audience and encouraging a willing audience is a unrecognized talent. The classic drill sergeant makes a lousy teacher for most people.

In this thread I have seen people with the same concerns express them in completely different ways. Some want to leave no doubt that they think you are making a mistake by trying to go too far too fast. They seem to have little faith in your instructor or your own ability to adjust your expectations to the reality in which you find yourself. Others are more subtle, sharing their experience rather than their opinions and offering support while keeping a close watch to see if they can offer something helpful. All of the members, in my opinion believe they are acting out of concern for your welfare. No one is trying to hurt you or be rude to you but they lack the awareness to see that they are not only not achieving their goal but are actively making the matter worse by quieting both you and others. I doubt that me saying it here will help them to see what I'm talking about.

I don't think you created this thread to get input on your decisions. You have an instructor and friends and mentors that you can ask about that and I doubt that you made these decisions haphazardly. You planned and paid for private instruction in a different state for a two week period and you immersed yourself in your diving which shows a tremendous commitment. The fact that this is the technical diving forum tends to encourage "constructive criticism" from some members. That is a reflection of the serious nature of technical diving and the respect they have for the risks involved. With luck, you and I will go on to understand where they are coming from.

You have been open and honest and candid and vulnerable and engaging and courageous. I'm going to ask you to go one step further. Please understand that there are members here that have an unbelievable amount of skill and experience. Many have seen friends or acquaintances get hurt or killed in pursuit of our sport. Some are amazing and yes some need to impress others with how much they know. We are all brothers and sisters of the same club, warts and all. Keep up the great work sister.

 

[Schwob]

@RayfromTX:
Wow! So well put!