Not Buying a Prius

[RonDawg]

Just curious what you're trying to say. Should a dealer work for free?

No, but when I see a $5k premium added to the MSRP, and no added features (i.e. custom wheels, custom paint, etc.), I call it "dealer greed."

Some call it "market value pricing", or some other pseudonym, but it's all the same. MSRP already includes a considerable amount of dealer profit. Just go to kbb.com to see just what kind of profit (MSRP minus invoice price) a dealer makes by selling the car at asking price. When you include things like "manufacturer incentives", even invoice is technically more than what the dealer will pay for the car from the manufacturer. Plus anybody who's worked in the new car business will tell you that the majority of a dealer's profit comes not from car sales, but from parts sales and servicing.

Whenever I walk into a dealership and see one of those stickers, I walk out the door. I won't even allow them to try to convince me to buy the car from them. There are too many other dealerships out there that don't try to pull that stunt. Fortunately it's a leftover from the 80's and part of the 90's, but you still see it every now and then with extremely popular, but low supply, cars like the Prius. But even at the height of Prius-madness, there were still many Toyota dealers that sold them at MSRP, albeit with long waiting lists.

 

[deepstops]

No, but when I see a $5k premium added to the MSRP, and no added features (i.e. custom wheels, custom paint, etc.), I call it "dealer greed."

Some call it "market value pricing", or some other pseudonym, but it's all the same. MSRP already includes a considerable amount of dealer profit.

Back in the 70's, the local Honda dealer was getting $1500-$2000 above MSRP for Honda Accords. They called it "dealer availability" fees...

 

[H2Andy]

they are asking you a question: do you want this car bad enough to pay $1500-$2000 extra?

i return the question: do you want to sell the car bad enough to drop the extra fee?

if the answer is no, i walk

i figure if they make 5% over invoice (what the car actually costs them), they are making a good deal. anything over that (the difference between invoice price and sale price) is gravy.

anything over that (bogus fees) is pure greed.

i try to negotiate a deal were both parties feel a little bit of pain. somewhere between the MSRP and sale price is usually right. just depends how much you want to fight over the last few hundred bucks.

buying a new car is just damage control. you're gonna get shafted; it's just a matter of how much you're gonna get shafted for.

 

[Soggy]

buying a new car is just damage control. you're gonna get shafted; it's just a matter of how much you're gonna get shafted for.

I think that's the polite version of the expression. The version I heard involve sodomy.

 

[Mo2vation]

You guys are so funny.

Its not greed if you can get it. If Toyota is smart, they'll make and release half-a-zillion of these, knowing market buzz, think-green types and Toyota groupies will create enough demand for about a zillion.

The dealers won't have to deal, Andy will have to walk and everyone is happy.



More to your point, Andy - buying a new car is always a balancing act between want, need, desire, and a practical application of available funds. We pay to satisfy desire. Damage control is a good term, but (and I don't think this was your specific reference) its hardly the dealer's fault. Most consumers are just ill equipped to manage the new car buying process, and many get hosed. It can be intimidating if you're not ready for it. I get the call often from friends and family to come with. I'm far from a pro, but I've done this enough to know what's what. Especially with Toyota (total with personal, friends and family has to be at least a dozen transactions over the last 10 years.)

Its funny - the Toyota dealer process (at least in SoCal) is like a scripted dance, down to the back of the paper with the hand-drawn quad matrix they all draw. There's the credit score review (always a crowd pleaser) with the sales person saying "I'll go in and fight for the best rate for you...", the back and forth with the manager behind the curtian, the first attempt to get 33% down on the thing to the Finance Manager's final litany of upsells right before you complete the paperwork (from carpet treatments, to anti-theft systems to paint and undercarriage sealant to Extended Service Contrats, upgraded monogrammed floor mats and the like) Its so funny. Its always the same.

Buying a car isn't like buying a skirt or a snorkel. It shouldn't be. It can't be.

This issue is how it is with the "hot new car" every September when they leak them and every October when the model year gets rolling. Heck, people were paying $2k to $3k over sticker for a Miata years ago.

The Prius is among this year's darlings. Think you can get a loaded black on black Z4 for sticker? Good luck. Take a number.

Its how things work in a market economy. I'd have it no other way. If there was only one choice, then I'd be a little PO'ed. But there are many hybrid econoboxes that will emerge and prices will drop.

And when a legit fuel cell hits, you'll see all of these on eBay.

---
Ken

 

[H2Andy]

Its how things work in a market economy. I'd have it no other way.

no question

and it's my job to get the car for as little as possible, just as it's the dealer's job to get the most out of the car.

however, since dealers hide the "true cost" to them of the car, you're always going to get shafted and will pay an excess of what a reasonable profit is (say 5% over invoice). in addition, as you note, buying a car is a multitude of sales rolled into one, and they'll try to talk you into every possible thing that can make them a penny.

that's ok. it's part of the price of buying a new car (the insane drop in value the moment you buy it is another).

what i object to is bogus fees, which i refuse to pay, such as "demand fees."

w.t.f? i ain't paying that. i don't want the car that bad.

 

[Mark Vlahos]

no question

and it's my job to get the car for as little as possible, just as it's the dealer's job to get the most out of the car.

however, since dealers hide the "true cost" to them of the car, you're always going to get shafted and will pay an excess of what a reasonable profit is (say 5% over invoice).

that's ok. it's part of the price of buying a new car (the insane drop in value the moment you buy it is another).

what i object to is bogus fees, which i refuse to pay, such as "demand fees."

w.t.f? i ain't paying that. i don't want the car that bad.

When I got my Prius there were no "screw you" fees. I did pay MSRP and taxes, but none of the fees you are talking about. There were other dealers that had extra fees, and they did not get my business.

Good luck in your quest, whatever kind of car you end up with,

Mark Vlahos

 

[RonDawg]

When I got my Prius there were no "screw you" fees. I did pay MSRP and taxes, but none of the fees you are talking about. There were other dealers that had extra fees, and they did not get my business.

The reason a few dealers still do this is because there are enough stupid people out there to pay them, either because they didn't know any better, or more likely because their heart's desire to have the car overrode their mind's objection to what I still will continue to refer to as "added dealer greed."

I'm glad there are people like Mark and Andy who, to borrow a phrase from Nancy Reagan, are willing to "Just Say No."