Non professional divers taking very young children diving (even in a pool)

[RJP]

You know guys,... Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. Regardless, I will err on the side of caution, when it is needed & be able to sleep at night.

Interestingly, your Shakespeare quote is one in which the speaker (Falstaff) was attempting to defend his cowardice in battle. (He laid down and pretended to be dead, instead of fighting.) It was intended to be taken as an ironic joke in Henry IV.

---------- Post added June 26th, 2015 at 07:15 AM ----------

Children have an automatic breath hold response. it's called the Mammalian Dive Reflex. this is why you can teach a baby to swim. We are hardwired to NOT breath underwater. This is straight up biology.

This is "straight up" incorrect.

 

[Lorenzoid]

This is "straight up" incorrect.

It's hard to blame laypersons like us for absorbing material from confusingly written articles like this: The Mammalian Diving Reflex and Freediving

 

[Frosty]

Hey KWS-Its refreshing to have a discussion with someone without toys being chucked out of cot.
I respect your opinion-but still don't agree.
-You -Me a beer or two someday sometime and lets continue the discussion.
For now we have intractable and opposite opinions.

 

[RJP]

It's hard to blame laypersons like us for absorbing material from confusingly written articles like this: The Mammalian Diving Reflex and Freediving

That "article" is nonsense, so it's not hard to imagine being confused by it.

Try this for a more scientific discussion:
The Mammalian Diving Response: An Enigmatic Reflex to Preserve Life? | Physiology

I remember doing MDR experiments in undergraduate physiology class. Lab partners would take turns sticking our faces (that's all it takes) in a bucket of water and measuring changes in heart rate, vasoconstriction, etc.

 

[Frosty]

Hey Rjp- Do you feel then that baby's /little kids learn to hold their breath when held underwater rather than it being a natural response?
NOT argueing for a second because I just don't know.
Baby kaz (now 3) always has just held her breath when her face is underwater.

 

[DaleC]

I don't know what's more dangerous. Letting your grandkids breath off a reg under water or submerging babies because of a supposed mammalian reflex.

I also don't know too many people who teach infants to swim. By the time they are >5yr's any reflexive action has been overwritten by voluntary control so that whole idea is mute.

 

[Octopusprime]

First I want to thank you for taking ownership that you chose not to for liability reasons. In many other shops someone would say it is agents the law or make an excuse.

Second if it was open water I would turn it around on him. Many people will say I can take care of my son underwater. But what if the child had to help the dad due to out of air or heart attach. can the child be a good buddy? and worse would you want the child to witness or feel responsible for the fathers ... death? Just a thought...

 

[RJP]

Hey Rjp- Do you feel then that baby's /little kids learn to hold their breath when held underwater rather than it being a natural response?

It's a normal, self-preservation response. It just has nothing to do with the Mammalian Diving Reflex.

The MDR is a reflexive (involuntary) response wherein the heart rate slows and blood is shunted, via vasoconstriction, from extremities to the core... among other physiologic responses. These reflexive responses are triggered by your face being put in cold water, and will happen whether you're breathing or not.

 

[Frosty]

I also don't know too many people who teach infants to swim. By the time they are >5yr's any reflexive action has been overwritten by voluntary control so that whole idea is mute.

hey dale in my neck of the woods its fairly common to start kids swimming in infancy.in the 1990's/early 2000's it dropped away along with a marked increase in child -teenage young adult drownings.
So rather than ambulance at bottom of cliff stuff we are being very actively encouraged to start teaching our kids to swim.
Baby kaz is just over three and has been able to swim to save her life since she was a year -18 months old. If she fell in a pool she could swim to the side and get herself out. or if she fell off a boat she can swim around with no life jacket on.
-(No she isn't allowed on a boat with no life jacket)

 

[Lorenzoid]

That "article" is nonsense, so it's not hard to imagine being confused by it.

Try this for a more scientific discussion:
The Mammalian Diving Response: An Enigmatic Reflex to Preserve Life? | Physiology. . .

Yes, that's the other article I found by Googling "mammalian diving reflex" that made me realize how "confusing" (to put it diplomatically) the first article is. The first article sounded like where Solacequest got his information from.