No mask, no reg swim

[johndiver999]

I would think you should use a flutter kick - to get there.
I would practice snorkeling with the jet fins and try to do several fast 50 yard swims in the pool. this should improve your technique and will result in strengthening eventually. Breathing from the snorkel.

Then (on the same day) I would practice the breathhold stuff - with a partner. First let yourself calm down and relax after the 50's. Then wear a weight belt and just do some static breathholds on the bottom with no mask. You should be able to do 45 seconds or so without trying. maybe 3-4 with a good 2 minute rest between. Don't push it, just see what you can do with only very slight uncomfortableness.

Then with a mask and snorkel and the fins, just do some casual surface swims with a relaxed flutter kick and no breathing. Try to swim gently and just see how far you get. 25 yards really should not be that hard. Again, don't push hard, just see how far you can get with maybe 80% effort. After you master 25 yards several times, you will feel better. It is not hard.

Do that work out 2-3 times in a week and you should be in better shape and way more confident and relaxed.

I would not believe anyone who tells you that you have another 2 minutes of apnea before you pass out (after you feel urgent need to breathe). If you feel bad come up! Don't hyperventilate, but taking 2-3 deep inhalations and exhalations before the dive should help.

A good bit of the apnea performance is psychological and the feedback you get from your body. If you have not adapted to the stress of breathhold, you will get panicky, you will flex muscles that should be relaxed, your brain will race and burn more oxygen (DO NOT discount this effect). You really want your breathhold (apnea) to be, for the most part a comfortable and relaxed activity - not something super stressful and difficult like lifting a heavy weight in the gym. You want to be saying to yourself (internal dialog).. I feel fine, I'm good, I'm relaxed, I'm moving gracefully and efficiently. NOT "I think I'm going to die!"

If you have normal physiology, your battle is within your brain and also making sure your kick is efficient and reasonably powerful and 15 meters should be very attainable.

 

[bipolarbear]

It sounds paradoxical, but slow down.

Strong, gliding frog kicks. If you flutter kick at a million miles an hour you'll build up that CO2 breathing impulse much more quickly.

Make sure you're very comfortable switching to your necklace reg so that you don't have anxiety over your gad source for the last few strokes. That way you don't have to faff around trying to unclio your primary reg.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

Did this drill allow you to use fins?

No offence intended...... but 15 meters, even without fins......should easily be covered in way less than 30 seconds. Maybe I am not fully understanding the question.

 

[JCM@Atlam]

Hated this skill, but you do realise the distance travelled doesn’t have to be with fin strokes? Much easier going arm over arm..(pull n glide)

Yes, one of the other instructors did suggest this. Though having no mask means you can't really see what there is to pull on

 

[Searcaigh]

When I did this skill I was using my Mares fins, but I don't recall what kick I used, I think it was most likely Frog because that's the one I use 90% of the time.

The instructor also used a line to guide me to my buddy, which I had in contact with my fingers but did not pull on it.

Once I reached my buddy I gave the OOG signal and used his long hose to return back to the starting point, also without the mask.

 

[JCM@Atlam]

When I did this skill I was using my Mares fins, but I don't recall what kick I used, I think it was most likely Frog because that's the one I use 90% of the time.

The instructor also used a line to guide me to my buddy, which I had in contact with my fingers but did not pull on it.

Once I reached my buddy I gave the OOG signal and used his long hose to return back to the starting point, also without the mask.

Thanks. How long do you think it took you to complete the 15m swim? I can hold my breath for 60 secs on the sofa but with any exertion I feel the need to breathe really quickly. I'm reasonably fit from cycling

 

[MacDuyver]

One of the blessings and curses of being really strong at cardio is that you are well practiced at breathing heavily and rhythmically throughout exertion. It's not so much that your muscles burn oxygen more or burn it more efficiently, it's that your body is likely more sensitive to your blood CO2 level, and your brain is used to your body eliminating it quickly and efficiently. try holding your breath in your living room while doing an airsquat every 2-3 seconds and see how your tolerance changes.

You likely feel like you're dying at anywhere between 15 and 30 seconds, but you've still got plenty of air left in your lungs at that point. A full 50m crossover takes about a minute (in shorts and a t-shirt, no fins).

The question of time is going to be dependent on a couple things. 1. your load you're wearing, 2. your efficiency in the water. The video I posted in page 1, the swimmer does 25m in about 20 seconds. He is well practiced, has good form, swimsuit, and no equipment. You'll have more weight and more drag, but you'll also have fins to overcome it, and ought to expect a similar time with practice.

In this one, they are doing 25m in full uniform with boots in 30 seconds. Again though, they're well practiced with good technique, good tempo and body position.

This is a well practiced 50m crossover, which is very difficult, but still an excellent example of a swimmer keeping his head positioned right and keeping his strokes even consistently paced and relaxed

I know that everyone in these videos is unencumbered, however the principle of body (and head!) positioning and good paced even strokes still apply. If you can keep your head and hips flat, you'll stay in trim easier no matter the load (provided it's balanced). This is done by looking straight down while swimming. This keeps your legs up and allows you to get maximum forward thrust. It's the reason there's a black line in the bottom of the pool lane, and a caving line across the bottom of a lake or ocean will serve the same purpose. You can't see crap without your mask anyway, so you might as well just look down for 15m and not mess up your form in the process.

It's not easy at first, but with practice, 15m (even 25m) is a very attainable distance on a single breath-hold.

 

[JCM@Atlam]

The trick to any subsurface breathhold swim is your stroke efficiency. You can get away with bad form in surface swimming (and in scuba) where air is plentiful, but you can't with breath-hold. Generally speaking, you want a STRONG stroke (with perfect trim) followed by riding the momentum until right before you come to a stop. if this is in a pool, you want to swim as deep as possible, hugging the bottom of the pool the entire way.


The stroke itself might be quite a bit different with tanks (particularly side mount), but the general idea of using a physically efficient stroke is the same. Strong thrust, ride momentum, strong thrust in order to minimize your cycles and maximize your oxygen. Your stress level plays a significant factor too. The more you swim, the more efficient and less stressed you are, so get in the pool a few times a week and hit some laps.

If understanding physiology helps put you at ease, know that your body does not trigger breathing based on lack of oxygen. It triggers breathing based on CO2 concentration in your blood. You (very generally) still have nearly 2 minutes of O2 left when you start feeling the burn and the panic.

Thanks, that's really helpful. There is clearly merit in just fighting the urge to breathe

 

[Bump_Head]

Yup....kick and ride the glide till you're almost still. RInse and repeat.

 

[JCM@Atlam]

Did this drill allow you to use fins?

No offence intended...... but 15 meters, even without fins......should easily be covered in way less than 30 seconds. Maybe I am not fully understanding the question.

You can swim 15m in <30 secs while carrying two AL80 cylinders with no fins? I can barely move without fins