nitrox MOD/TOD

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jonnythan:
According to the NOAA, which I believe has no authority over much of anything related to SCUBA diving, including the training agencies which appear to be teaching most students to use the MOD for 1.4.

This whole thread has been a blast to read. In the early/mid 90's when nitrox was really introduced to recreational diving, virtually all taught 1.6 PPO2 for MOD calculations. In the last 5 years or so it has been taught 1.4 PPO2 for MOD with 1.6 PPO2 as the never exceed and/or for deco. I've been teaching nitrox recreationally since late 94 and to be honest when thinking MOD still go to 1.6, BUT if the person I'm getting the gas from wants me to write in the log a MOD based on 1.4 I will. I teach the 1.4/1.6 max now.
That being said when I first started diving nitrox (and pure O2) a PPO2 of 2.0 was the limit.

Any of us will have a fairly large variance on any given day to what PPO2 will or will not cause trouble, this is not set in stone.

1.4 IS a safe bet to teach (most all the time)
 
When I consider the MOD for my mix, I use 1.6 ppo2 since that is the absolute MAXIMUM depth I would consider going to period. I am consious of and try to stay about the depth 1.4 ppo2 is for my mix, but the MAX depth I would go to is the 1.6 -

The phrase "contingency depth" @ 1.6 is really saying that the 1.4 MOD is a poor choice of wording. If 1.4 (according to the agencies that use a contingency depth) is called the MOD, then you shouldn't even have a contingency plan to exceed the MOD, because then it's not really MOD is it??? MOD means MOD (IMO) - when you look at the semantics of the words used.

1.4 should be called the "Maximum depth that you should plan on going to" and the absolute Maximum is 1.6. Therefore MOD is 1.6 ppo2.
 
I don't feel the need to look at my tank while diving to remember what my MOD is.
The actual mix (32, 36, 18/40, whatever) is much more important to me. This way I grab the right bottle and if I plan my dive and follow my plan everything has the tendancy to work fine.

If you are diving Nitrox the diver should know exactly what the max depth for them is based on mix, knowledge and personal limits, not follow blindly what the guy who filled the tank figures what MOD should be.
 
I am not terribly concerned about what it says in the NOAA manual. I am a lot more concerned about real world experience and the various factors that affect me on a dive.

The US Navy did studies in the 1950's on O2 enriched air mixtures and found a large degree of variability to O2 toxicity. One of the factors was that the test subects were former or current helmet divers who had developed a tolerance to high CO2 levels due to the poorly ventilated helmets of the day. This high CO2 tolerance and the lower respiration/SAC rates these experienced divers exhibited made them more suceptible to an O2 hit. In the end the US Navy was not able to determine a totally safe yet still operationally beneficial PPO2 level and abandoned the whole concept. In short the US Navy found that for working divers (with low SAC rates/high CO2 tolerance) a safe PPO2 level is low enough that you gain relatively little benefit over a 21% percent 02 mix, so why bother.

Recreationally speaking nearly all rec training agencies intitially used a 1.6 PPO2 and MOD's based on that number. However it is also true that nearly all recreational agencies now use a PPO2 of 1.4 and recommend MOD's based on that lower number. I suspect the move to a lower PPO2 had a lot to do with agencies being unable to control the type of diving that the nitrox divers they mint will ultimately do. And I suspect it had a lot more to do with an over abundance of lawyers, some of whom are willing to sue on a contingency basis on behalf of the surviving relatives of moronic and deceased divers who failed to apply common sense to their nitrox diving.

Tech training agencies seem to use an PPO2 of 1.4 for the working portion of the dive and use a PPO2 of 1.6 for the deco portions of the dive for the improved offgassing that occurs during the less active deco portion of the dive.

Personally, I think a decent education on the topic and a lot of common sense will serve you a lot better than rigorous adhearance to agency dogma.

My thoughts on the subject:

1. If you are one of those divers obsessed with having the lowest SAC on the boat or in your group of dive buddies, either stop trying to lower your consumption rates by extreme or artifical means or don't dive nitrox or do deep air dives (below 130'). If you persist in doing both, a PP02 of 1.0 to 1.2 may be something you want to consider as a maximum.

2. Some people are just more suceptible to an O2 hit than other people and your personal suceptibility varies from day to day. It is important for any nitrox diver to be aware of and alert for the symptoms of an impending PPO2 hit.

3. More exertion means more CO2 retention and greater risk of an O2 hit at a given PPO2. So if you are diving in a current, working under water or other wise exerting yourself more than normal - or are planning a dive where these situations could conceivably occur - plan to use a lower PPO2 and it's shallower MOD.

4. A quality regulator with low inhalation and exhalation efforts is beneficial interms of reducing CO2 retention. A cheap regulator does not mix well wit either deep diving or relatively high PPO2 nitrox diving.

5. A full face mask and a good dive buddy will go a long way toward making an O2 hit surviveable if one occurs since it is the drowning after you spit out your regulator that kills you, not the convulsion itself.

6. Caution is a good thing, but there is also a point of diminishing returns with reducing PPO2 levels. As you continue to lower the PPO2 and MOD, you gain less benefit in terms of reduced deco obligations and in turn reduce either the bottom time or safety margin added to an air decompression table's NDL's (depending on why you dive nitrox).

7. Think about what you do and why you do it and don't base what you do soley on agency dogma (particularly if you don't thoroughly understand the course content or if the course content was lacking). And don't base what you do on what you read on the internet.
 
Thalassamania:
I really don't understand you people. The OP notes that there is a lack of clarity with the definition of MOD. I point out that the folks who coined the term defined it. And at least three of you seem to feel that the originator of the term has not right to their definition because said originator has no enforcement power over scuba. Way too strange for me.

I think that the argument that whoever "coins" a term gets to define it for everyone and for all time is specious - words and terms used in both common and technical language evolve and change. In addition to that, I think that anyone would be hard pressed to argue that NOAA coined the term "maximum operating depth" given the fact that the first nitrox dives occurred in London in 1879, British navy divers during WW2 used rebreathers with nitrox mixes of 32.5, 40 and 60 because these mixes had deeper operational depths than 100 percent O2 and Lt Cmdr J V Dwyer produced nitrox tables for the US Navy in the 1950s. Since NOAA wasn't formed until 1970, I'd be willing to bet that somebody else used the term before them. Common understanding of the term "maximum operating depth" among recreational dive agencies seems to be MOD = PPO2/(FO2xP). MOD is dependant on PPO2. That seems pretty straightforward to me. The PPO2 used to calculate MOD should be agreed on by the certifying agency of the divers conducting the dive or by the team making the dive.

I don't see what is difficult to understand in that.

YMMV,

Jackie Cooper
 
You can use whatever you want to. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and saying that you must dive to this depth or that. But redefining a term such as MAXIMUM to mean "MY MAXIMUM" does great violence to both the language and logic. Please, fell free to have a KMOD or whatever you want to call it, but leave already defined terms be and don't help co-op those terms.

In point of fact, if one presents a hypothesis and it can be shown to be correct 95% of the time then that's what modern science calls a fact.

You can twiddle and play games with the clumsy (and contradictory) language all you want, that does not change several things:

1) MOD is a NOAA originated term.

2) MOD is, in NOAA’s parlance, 1.6.

3) Section 6 is titled Maximum Depth and Bottom Time. It is not defining MOD (which was done in Section 3, but rather is addressing operational limits. I will point out these semantic problems to the NDC and I'm sure that in the final form this will be more clearly stated (this is a draft at this stage).
 
Thalassamania:
You can use whatever you want to. Nobody is holding a gun to your head and saying that you must dive to this depth or that. But redefining a term such as MAXIMUM to mean "MY MAXIMUM" does great violence to both the language and logic.
Tough! Language and accepted terms change over time. You can play King Canute telling the tide not to come in if you like but a more pragmatic approach is to make sure that when ever you discuss MOD you make sure you agree on a common definition and understand what that definition means.
 
Facts are incontrovertible.
If there is one instance proving it is wrong, it's wrong. Period.

the K
 
I am begining to wonder if NITROX is worth the trouble?
As the PPO2 becomes more conservitive the advantages of NITROX seem to diminish.
Even if I am not diving NITROX, if I intent to go below 33m (100ft) I need a gas analayser to insure that it is 21% that I have in my tank.
Most dive operations will not allow me to utilise an extended bottom time as they want to get all the divers back onboard the boat at about the same time.
The only real advantage that I can see thats left is to have 40% available at the 5m (15 ft) safety stop.
 
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