Nitrox extends NDL but does it have other benefits?

[tursiops]

I take offense at those who claim my lack of fatigue on Nitrox is a placebo effect. The existing studies are not relevant to the conditions under which I (and others) claim to be less fatigued.

Good science starts with observations.....I'm suggesting the observations (some call them anecdotes) are compelling.
Good science does not start with denigrating someone's observations because they disagree with your preconceived notions.

The hypothesis is that Nitrox can relieve the tendency for sublinical DCS. One cannot prove a hypothesis, one can only disprove. The studies have not been done to do this....they ask for uncontrolled self-analysis about "how tired are you?" Get serious.

 

[boulderjohn]

That's why no one has done any real research. No one cares.

I think that is the point of the funding. If enough people cared, there would be money for the research

 

[tursiops]

I think that is the point of the funding. If enough people cared, there would be money for the research

I'm not sure the system actually works that way. It is just as likely that there is money for research even if no one cares. There are certainly many examples of this!

 

[CosFragger]

I used to do make 5 dives a day on a liveaboard and notice that i don't feel tired after about 70 to 90 minutes per dive on Nitrox. Did not move much though since i was diving with photographers.

 

[KeithG]

I used to do make 5 dives a day on a liveaboard and notice that i don't feel tired after about 70 to 90 minutes per dive on Nitrox. Did not move much though since i was diving with photographers.

Agreed - i feel the same way. Except I am on air.

I claim less swimming makes you less tired.

Can I get a government grant to study that?

 

[Rhone Man]

And, Second Question....
I have read several topics on various sites that disagree more or less 50:50 on whether the use of nitrox reduces the evening fatigue that you get from a day full of diving. I know it is a subjective question but can anyone offer their own experiences here?

For my money, nitrox does help me with post diving fatigue. I suspect that it helps some people but not others, which results in the divergence of opinion.

I also personally believe that it also helps prevent CO2 headaches if you are a skip-breather. I can't think of any sensible reason why it should, but I personally have no doubts that this is true.


---------- Post added April 14th, 2014 at 11:42 PM ----------

I think that is the point of the funding. If enough people cared, there would be money for the research

Not sure that is true. Plenty of people care about DCS, but we still have no real clear understanding about the broader biochemical process.

 

[scubadada]

I take offense at those who claim my lack of fatigue on Nitrox is a placebo effect. The existing studies are not relevant to the conditions under which I (and others) claim to be less fatigued.

Good science starts with observations.....I'm suggesting the observations (some call them anecdotes) are compelling.
Good science does not start with denigrating someone's observations because they disagree with your preconceived notions.

The hypothesis is that Nitrox can relieve the tendency for sublinical DCS. One cannot prove a hypothesis, one can only disprove. The studies have not been done to do this....they ask for uncontrolled self-analysis about "how tired are you?" Get serious.

If you feel less fatigued diving nitrox, good for you.

Just because I don't believe nitrox reduces fatigue, all else being equal, does not mean I don't utilize it for other, obvious benefits. More than 500 of my last 750 dives since becoming nitrox certified in 2002 have been on nitrox. I couldn't begin to count the extra number of hours I have been able to spend underwater.

Sometimes the amount of science available on a topic is disappointingly scant, perhaps in this case. Regardless, some of us tend to side with the science and some of us do not, to each their own. This topic will never be investigated definitively, it is simply not importantant enough for society, as a whole, to support. There are just way too many more important questions to ask.

Good diving, nitrox or not, Craig

 

[Tigerman]

...
The hypothesis is that Nitrox can relieve the tendency for sublinical DCS. One cannot prove a hypothesis, one can only disprove. The studies have not been done to do this....they ask for uncontrolled self-analysis about "how tired are you?" Get serious.

No offense, but that hypothesis also tend to suggest that subclinical DCS can be mitigated by slowing down your ascent, especially near the surface...

Also, being an instructor do you teach people that nitrox will help them feel less fatigued - something that is not supported by evidence, or do you teach them that SOME PEOPLE CLAIM to be less fatigued using nitrox and that its not a verified reason to use it?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

There was a study performed to try and measure the effects of nitrox on diver fatigue. The study concluded that nitrox didn't do much for fatigue. I feel like it makes a difference when I dive. Perhaps it's just perception, but even if that's true it's worth diving to me.

It's worth noting that the study had a handful of flaws (noted in the study document). One such flaw was that it was performed in a chamber rather than on actual dives. Maybe that was a factor in the negative results.

... that's kind've like testing someone's diving ability by reading their posts on ScubaBoard ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added April 15th, 2014 at 04:53 AM ----------

Ask any liveaboard. We love that stuff. First 2 days of liveaboard diving on air, second 2 on nicetrox. Or, 2 boats, Spree and Ultimate Getaway or Spree and Fling, all similar boats, all in the same place, do one boat air and one nicetrox. Customers pay for the trip. Researcher only has to come up with protocols.

Really, does it make a difference? That's why no one has done any real research. No one cares.

I don't much care what a researcher tells me ... I do care what my body tells me. And it tells me that diving EAN32 is worth the $100/month I pay for it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[tursiops]

No offense, but that hypothesis also tend to suggest that subclinical DCS can be mitigated by slowing down your ascent, especially near the surface...

Also, being an instructor do you teach people that nitrox will help them feel less fatigued - something that is not supported by evidence, or do you teach them that SOME PEOPLE CLAIM to be less fatigued using nitrox and that its not a verified reason to use it?

My ascents are very slow....3-5min safety stops on NDL dives, 30-60s to get to the surface from the stop.
No, I do not teach that it makes you less tired. I teach that some feel it does, including me, but the appropriate research has not yet been done. I teach you use it to uptake less nitrogen...thus affecting BTs and SIs.

By the way, we clearly disagree on what "evidence" means. You say there is none; I say there is plenty of anecdotal evidence, and nothing "scientific" that is relevant to the multiple dives over multiple days scenario.

---------- Post added April 15th, 2014 at 09:46 AM ----------

Regardless, some of us tend to side with the science and some of us do not, to each their own.

My point is that you are siding with irrelevant science. I choose not to do that.

Safe diving to you, too!