Nitrogen narcosis and alcohol use.

[Subcooled]

that dive, my first ever to that depth ... It was cold down there and we weren't wearing wetsuits. My teeth were chattering on the rubber mouthpiece and my breathing was becoming erratic.

No. You were severely hypothermic and lost your counsciousness as you core temperature dropped dangerously. Some narcosis might have intensified this effect. Also note that heat loss is greatest at the head, and you left it unprotected.

I was most likely sensitive to narcosis because I was not then (nor am I now) a drinker. He said that divers who habitually drink alcohol are less susceptible to nitrogen narcosis

Habitual drinkers always say "I don't drink that much, really", yet the effects of alcohol remain. Read the study. It's available at Rubicon Research Repository: Home

Search for alcohol narcosis

 

[lamont]

A few days later, I was discussing the incident with the owner/instructor at the dive shop that conducted the recovery and he told me that I was most likely sensitive to narcosis because I was not then (nor am I now) a drinker. He said that divers who habitually drink alcohol are less susceptible to nitrogen narcosis, while non-drinkers, like myself, are influenced more easily and at shallower depths.

I think your dive shop owner is rationalizing why he thinks he's a hard head when it comes to narcosis.

The truth is more likely CO2 buildup and you probably built up a pile of it on that dive in the cold, at that depth, probably with a fairly high work-of-breathing with the regs(?).

The dive shop owner is probably very comfortable where he dives and doesn't get a lot of CO2 buildup on the normal dive -- but if he starts doing air down to 130 and has a student scare the crap out of him in current or something, he may find out that he's not so immune to narcosis as he thinks...

I doubt how much alcohol either of you drink has anything to do with it.

 

[lamont]

It would be interesting if there was ever a study done on this, I have only done a handful of dive to 130 feet but never felt the effects of being Narced. I am not a heavy drinker, but have enjoyed a few in my day. But someone once made a comment in saying that "bigger" people (like me) while they tend to burn through their air faster than someone in better shape, they also tend to take longer to get Narced. Any truth in this that anyone know?

no.

more important fact is being out of shape and building up CO2.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I can't provide you with definitive proof, and certainly no scientific data, what I can give you is my experience being employed as a diver for more than a decade.

. .. According to the above theory, they should have better tolerance to Nitrogen than me. After-all in a 24 hour period they are drunk 8+ hours, and I am sober. Certainly if the above theory were correct, they'd perform their duties faster, better, more efficiently than me, or am I just superhuman? I think not. Anyway, this is just one example that comes to mind.

That is not what was postulated.

If alcohol and nitrogen both act as CNS depressants (and they do, that's just a fact), then the same physiological and psychological coping mechanisms for being able to improve one's tolerances and/or ability to function may apply to a person under the effects of both substances.

If you have developed the ability to cope under significant PO₂ of N₂ then you have developed a psychological coping mechanism for functioning under the effects of a CNS depressant.

If the theory holds water, then, the test for you isn't if you are better than some drunk (dive trained or not) at depth. The test for you would be if you could function better than the average non-drinker while under the influence of varying amounts of alcohol.

No one (in this thread anyway) is suggesting there is a causal link between drinking and avoiding narcosis. But there is a suggestion (which seems reasonable) that experience functioning while under the influence of CNS depressants is transferable. After all, we can't really measure narcosis, we can measure how functional a diver is at a particular depth. But that isn't really the same thing. Some people can just function while narc'ed better than others.

 

[Jxh2297]

No connection what so ever. My friend and I have never had a sip of alcohol on our lives and we both went to 115-120 in Cozumel and I couldn't tell a difference between 115 and 40ft. No effects on either of us.

 

[lamont]

No connection what so ever. My friend and I have never had a sip of alcohol on our lives and we both went to 115-120 in Cozumel and I couldn't tell a difference between 115 and 40ft. No effects on either of us.

first of all, yes you were affected by narcosis. narcosis affects free recall of information learned at depth. the simplest way to observe this is the constant checking of pressure gauge information that typically occurs (math tests and recall of information already learned is substantially less impaired).

second of all, a lot of the differences in narcosis levels can probably be explained by CO2 buildup. some of narcosis variability is due to the phase of the moon, but nice easy dives with comfortable divers with good breathing regs are going to involve a lot less CO2 narc.

 

[Aigtbootbp]

I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but I would think a person who is used to operating in a degraded state would be more aware of their situation and be capable in performing in that condition.
i.e., a drunk can tell they are plastered and know they need to be more careful or they will get hurt. A newbie drunk wouldn't be aware of just how impaired they are and thus be in more danger.
Nothing to do with BAC or narcosis, just a familiarity with operations in a less than ideal physical state.
Of course this would not apply to all drunks, some are just idiots and have no business being anywhere they can endanger themselves or others.

 

[Jxh2297]

first of all, yes you were affected by narcosis. narcosis affects free recall of information learned at depth. the simplest way to observe this is the constant checking of pressure gauge information that typically occurs (math tests and recall of information already learned is substantially less impaired).

second of all, a lot of the differences in narcosis levels can probably be explained by CO2 buildup. some of narcosis variability is due to the phase of the moon, but nice easy dives with comfortable divers with good breathing regs are going to involve a lot less CO2 narc.

That's right! I remember you swimming right next to me watching me the entire dive.

 

[Paladin]

That is not what was postulated.

If alcohol and nitrogen both act as CNS depressants (and they do, that's just a fact), then the same physiological and psychological coping mechanisms for being able to improve one's tolerances and/or ability to function may apply to a person under the effects of both substances.

If you have developed the ability to cope under significant PO₂ of N₂ then you have developed a psychological coping mechanism for functioning under the effects of a CNS depressant.

If the theory holds water, then, the test for you isn't if you are better than some drunk (dive trained or not) at depth. The test for you would be if you could function better than the average non-drinker while under the influence of varying amounts of alcohol.

No one (in this thread anyway) is suggesting there is a causal link between drinking and avoiding narcosis. But there is a suggestion (which seems reasonable) that experience functioning while under the influence of CNS depressants is transferable. After all, we can't really measure narcosis, we can measure how functional a diver is at a particular depth. But that isn't really the same thing. Some people can just function while narc'ed better than others.

I think this is what the LDS owner was trying to say.

 

[lamont]

That's right! I remember you swimming right next to me watching me the entire dive.

you don't have enough experience to know what you're talking about.

when you get around to posting your "i've never been narc'd before, but this one dive..." post don't forget that i told you so...