Oh sure... everytime we do an annual, all the o-rings get replaced. Heck, they come in the kit, why not use them... But I have seen a new one - either straight out of the box, or after a rebuild - go out occassionally. Thus I carry some spares.
Newly serviced regs break on third dive
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R
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scubatoys:
Larry
With Scubapro, most o-ring are not required replacement and, therefor, do not come in the kit. Do you also replace all the o-rings that are not included in the kit such as hose and port plug o-rings?
I just want to be clear on this. Thanks
This whole thing makes little sense to me... every annual service kit with which I am familiar comes with new HP and LP hose o-rings. I have never known anyone to "remove o-rings from the LP and HP hoses and plugs then inspect, relubricate and reinstall them." Why in the world would they do that when new o-rings are in the kit? If there's a kit without them, what kit is it?DA Aquamaster:
Rick
PS - just saw the post (Awap's) above... we must be getting different Scubapro kits
(I must admit another guy does all our Scubapro regs - I do mostly AquaLung/US Divers)
oxyhacker
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Some reg manufacturers have in the past sold major and minor OH kits, the minor ones not having static O-rings in them among other differences. Don't think any do anymore, but who knows. And not sure if they are still saying it, but not too long ago Scuba Pro service instructions called for mandatory replacement of only the dynamic O-rings, and inspection and replacement only as needed of others.
And then some shops, ones doing high service volume especially, buy individual OH parts in bulk rather than kits.
I think the main cause of trouble, though, is shops in a hurry not replacing all the O-rings. As you say, it doesn't make sense to remove and O-ring, and not replace it.
And then some shops, ones doing high service volume especially, buy individual OH parts in bulk rather than kits.
I think the main cause of trouble, though, is shops in a hurry not replacing all the O-rings. As you say, it doesn't make sense to remove and O-ring, and not replace it.
Rick Murchison:This whole thing makes little sense to me... every annual service kit with which I am familiar comes with new HP and LP hose o-rings. I have never known anyone to "remove o-rings from the LP and HP hoses and plugs then inspect, relubricate and reinstall them." Why in the world would they do that when new o-rings are in the kit? If there's a kit without them, what kit is it?
Rick
PS - just saw the post (Awap's) above... we must be getting different Scubapro kits
SP annual service kits do not include the static LP and HP port plug/hose o-rings. We end up having to stock them separately. SP also does not require most of their static o-rings to be replaced annually, which means it is not specified at all when they should be replaced. That ends up being left to the discretion of the tech themselves based on an inspection of the o-ring condition (which means removal and replacement). This is no big deal with a larger o-ring that rests in a smooth easy to reach groove, but it can be problematic with smaller o-rings like LP port orings that you have to remove with a pick - it's just way to easy to damage one to consider putting it back in.
The lack of static o-rings in kits also places some extra burden and expense on the shop as any parts other than what is in the kit would need to be recorded and sent to SP in order for SP to replace them under the parts program. It's more time and bother than it is worth, so I suspect most shop owners end up absorbing the cost of replacing static o-rings.
Aqualung on the other hand includes the static o-rings in their kits and they are overall much more user freindly kits that save you the time of having to chase down individual o-rings. They also have a handy template you cna use to ID the o-rings for each application which makes the process pretty idiot proof.
Dacor however is horrible when it comes to annual service kits. We have first stage kits for Dacor regs, but for the most part, you have to stock, identify and use individual parts for the second stages which adds a lot of time cross checking numbers and schematics to ensure you are using the right o-ring. Mares is equally bad, We do not service a lot of them, but when we do we notice odd things like Mares shipping annual service kits with no seats, which you have to order separately.
In any case, I keep a compartmented box on the bench with the various static o-rings that will most often be encountered and will need to replaced. I suspect that if a tech had to go hunting for an o-ring, it quite often not get replaced. The unfortunate reality is that most techs are paid by the regulator or by the stage not by the hour so it creates the temptation for a tech to take a short cut here and there to amke up time lost on the more challenging regs. Techs make very little money (from an hourly wage standpoint) when they get stuck with an incredibly, salted, corroded reg that require a great deal of additional work to dissasemble and clean at annual service. If the shop does not charge extra for poorly maintained regs, the tech can spend a long afternoon on one for very little pay.
It's the same basic problem you see with auto mechanics who are often also paid by the job rather than for their time. You see lots of short cuts and work arounds that are not manufacturer approved and that may actually shorten the life of the part being replaced.
The lack of static o-rings in kits also places some extra burden and expense on the shop as any parts other than what is in the kit would need to be recorded and sent to SP in order for SP to replace them under the parts program. It's more time and bother than it is worth, so I suspect most shop owners end up absorbing the cost of replacing static o-rings.
Aqualung on the other hand includes the static o-rings in their kits and they are overall much more user freindly kits that save you the time of having to chase down individual o-rings. They also have a handy template you cna use to ID the o-rings for each application which makes the process pretty idiot proof.
Dacor however is horrible when it comes to annual service kits. We have first stage kits for Dacor regs, but for the most part, you have to stock, identify and use individual parts for the second stages which adds a lot of time cross checking numbers and schematics to ensure you are using the right o-ring. Mares is equally bad, We do not service a lot of them, but when we do we notice odd things like Mares shipping annual service kits with no seats, which you have to order separately.
In any case, I keep a compartmented box on the bench with the various static o-rings that will most often be encountered and will need to replaced. I suspect that if a tech had to go hunting for an o-ring, it quite often not get replaced. The unfortunate reality is that most techs are paid by the regulator or by the stage not by the hour so it creates the temptation for a tech to take a short cut here and there to amke up time lost on the more challenging regs. Techs make very little money (from an hourly wage standpoint) when they get stuck with an incredibly, salted, corroded reg that require a great deal of additional work to dissasemble and clean at annual service. If the shop does not charge extra for poorly maintained regs, the tech can spend a long afternoon on one for very little pay.
It's the same basic problem you see with auto mechanics who are often also paid by the job rather than for their time. You see lots of short cuts and work arounds that are not manufacturer approved and that may actually shorten the life of the part being replaced.
OP
angryguy777
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DA Aquamaster:
Now, that makes me feel great.
Yes, not only will your o-rings fail but your car most likely won't even start so you can take the reg back to the shop. Yet another reason to stock a few extra o-rings in the save a dive kit.
DA - great approach to O-ring replacement. My compliments. From a material science point of view, O-ring failure is one of the easiest to diagnosis (there are no unexplained issues in this field, just what appears to be unexplained failures), but I would doubt it would be worth the time for most people resolve. Better to be prepared.
One question though - do you match o-rings, even the generic static ones with each manufacturer, or just buy stock sizes? I ask because I'm not sure how knowledgeable every Regulator maker is on materials, or each companies performance expectations.
One question though - do you match o-rings, even the generic static ones with each manufacturer, or just buy stock sizes? I ask because I'm not sure how knowledgeable every Regulator maker is on materials, or each companies performance expectations.
OP
angryguy777
Registered
OK, so I took the regs diving this weekend (4 dives) and guess what happened... Did three dives no problem, strap on the tank for the fourth dive and... POP! That's right, same damn thing. But I have a theory. The first time this happened I noticed the tank seemed a little overfilled, by that I mean around 3500 PSI. Now, my first stage says it's only rated to 3500. On the last dive this weekend, the tank was once again filled to nearly 3500 PSI. Of course, I knew what the problem was and fixed it immediately so it only kept me out of the water for 5 minutes.
I'm guessing the pressure is just too high (3500 PSI). We bled out some of the air as it leaked (down to 3200) and I had no problems after that. Am I correct?
-Zak
I'm guessing the pressure is just too high (3500 PSI). We bled out some of the air as it leaked (down to 3200) and I had no problems after that. Am I correct?
-Zak
R
redacted
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I think I would be looking for a new hose that does an adequate job of capturing that O-ring. Even with overfilled tanks, blowing a hose o-ring should not be acceptable. Going to a higher duro o-ring and a little extra torque might stop it from extruding, but that is a shade tree solution to something that should not be a problem. If a new hose does not fix it, it is possible that the regulator is defective where that hose is connecting. If it is under warrenty, make the shop fix it right.
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