Newbies and dive shop responsibilites

[miketsp]

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In early 2000, my wife, my 14 year old son and I took a vacation in Brazil (I was there for business anyway). We decided to spend a few days on the island of Fernando de Noronha, and to do some diving there. My son and I had been certified a year before, but our total experience was only about 10 dives each, including the four OW certification dives. All of our diving so far had been under the close supervision of an instructor or DM.
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We had booked three two-tank trips. Each boat (they had two) actually ran three of these every day! As you may imagine, the boats never went very far from the harbor, and the surface intervals were ridiculously short.
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The dive turned out to be an extended struggle against a fairly strong current. My son and I (he was my buddy) were trying to keep up with the group, but ended up way behind them.
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I also noticed that I was running through a lot of air. Finally, the DM stopped and we caught up with them.
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(btw, the shop did not rent wet suits either). The DMs should adapt the dives they are proposing to the level of their customers. And they should keep an eye on the newbies.
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I just saw this thread after it was bumped and I'm really curious to know which of the 3 operators it was (Atlantis/Noronha Divers/Aguas Claras) as this is so different from their normal operating standards.
If you don't want to post it please PM me.
My wife and I have dived with one operator, my son with all 3 and we know quite a few DMs and a couple of the owners. Quite often DMs from the LDSs in São Paulo will spend a month or so up there with one of the 3 operators, DMing during their holidays in return for board & lodging. We know a number that have done this.

The vast majority of divers at Noronha are newbies so normally the profiles are very conservative and it's normally a battle to get them to take you to the more interesting dives.
Standard operating practice at Noronha is one DM leading, the group follows and another DM closing the group some distance behind. Since visibility is normally 25-30m the 2nd DM easily picks up any stragglers.

One of the problems there though, is language, for non-Portuguese speakers and this may have been at the root of your problem with current. The DMs know the currents quite well as they normally do up to 5 dives per day, every day. But I did see it happen where we were briefed to be at a certain depth to be out of the current and they really didn't get this across to some of the foreign tourists. At one point I had to grab a German guy to pull him into line with the protecting ledge as he was rising into the current which would have swept him away.

We've done some excellent drift dives there and the DMs always showed good knowledge of the conditions.

As for renting wet-suits, you said early in the year. Normally water temps are 28-29C and most tourists dive in a shorty or just a T-shirt so it's not surprising that the operators don't maintain much stock.

Edit: After I made the post I suddenly had a feeling of "déjà vu" and then I remembered that I replied to your similar post 13 months ago and you said it was Atlantis.
http://www.scubaboard.com/showpost.php?p=620574&postcount=36

 

[Dapher]

Two thoughts on this:

1) As a diver you are (or should be) trained to dive properly. You are taught not only the skills but the equipment that is needed. As my instructor and good friend said to me when he found out I was so worried about my kids when they dive. They are certified divers, they have had the same training as I and should be responsible for themselves. If the diver is not able to do this then they should not be divers. If you saw that the gear you rented did not function correctly or was lacking in any way it is your responsibility as a diver to return it, get it repaired, and or call the dive. If you do not feel comfortable with a dive plan it is your responsibility to say so and to NOT do the dive. As my 12yo son recently said to an adult about his choice to not dive with a cold. It is better to not dive today so I can make hundreds of dives later. As a diver you too have responsibilities.

2) A GOOD shop makes sure their gear is functioning, that they lead dives that are within their clients limits, and in the interest of their own liability make sure they don't ask their customers to do something that the customer has not been trained for. Sounds like you found a BAD shop. Yes, I agree they should not have taken you to a depth that you are not certified for. Yes, they should have included a depth guage and made sure you had everything you needed for your dive. A GOOD dive shop would have asked, and a GOOD salesman would have made sure you were rented every piece of equipment you could possibly need. I live in an area where you must dive dry. I guarantee you that if you can't present proof of training in a dry-suit you will not be found in his gear unless it is during the class that he just signed you up for. I have known them to allow students to forget articles of gear for a pool session and bring it and then ask the student.. Hey where is your (missing piece of gear) in an effort to teach them about being responsible for themselves.

Bottom line - be responsible for you, don't assume someone else will.

 

[DameDykker]

2) Do not rely on a DM for your safety (an often repeated mantra on SB). My son and I went through rescue training that same year. We do not need DMs any more.
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Just a small comment to your second point: Remember that on new locations we're all newbies and might indeed need a DM or guide not to be unpleasently supriced. This goes even for the most experienced diver! At the very least talk with a diver with local knowledge.

 

[ScubaFreak]

Glad you ended up ok, and its good that you learnt those lessons. It's not unusual for a dive op to convince OW divers to dive beyond their recommended depth, but bear in mind your 14 year old son was only rated to 40feet water!
Just remember another point, never be afraid to turn to the Dive op and say, whoa..I'm not comfortable diving in these conditions, i.e, to 35metres and without a depth guage! We need more divers who have the confidence to turn around and let their concerns be known!

Good luck

Scubafreak