Newbie looking for a hogarthian setup

[KevlarCoated]

Hi Everyone,
I've been reading the forums a lot lately and Im a bit overwhelmed with all the information.
I've been diving for about 15 years but only occasionally (a couple of dives a year) and Im certified to advanced open water and nitrox (although after reading the big thread about that probably not at that level.)
I've decided I want to do a lot more diving and get into tech diving and ice diving next year (or when ever my skills dictate.
I've decided I want to buy a full set of gear to minimise the barriers to going out on training dives.
I live in Southern Ontario so most dives will be relatively cold and fresh water.

I've decided to buy a dry suit. The dive shop I've been talking to recommended a DUI Yukon 2 ($1950)(people seem to either love or hate.) My other options would be Bare HDC Tec Dry ($2078), Aqualung Fusion ($1899) or Scubapro Everdry 4 ($1479). SeaTux is another option at a similar price point and Canadian made.
Obviously fit is going to be an important factor. The LDS recommended against the Everdry saying that it didnt allow for sufficient undergarments to be suitable for diving when it gets cold here. Does anyone have any recommendations either for or against any of those.

I already have Aqualung Legend LX primary and octopus with yoke connection. Its not really suitable for tech diving in it's current state. Im leaning towards getting a DIN to Yoke adapter for the tanks that I end up getting and just sticking with this to save some money for now. Are there any issues with this?

I've decided to go with a BP/W setup but Im having trouble working out what size of wing I need and if I need stainless or Al. I looked at the buoyancy calculator spread sheet and had a bit of trouble finding a setup that it didnt have issues with in terms of the buoyancy at depth or at the safety. This also leads into my next question which is I need tanks and Im thinking I would like to start with doubles to give me lots of time to get used to them but I dont know if I should be getting Al or steel tanks and what size.
Can someone help me with the buoyancy calculations for what I should be looking at? Im 6'2", 225lb, fairly muscular and most diving would be in fresh water.

I already have a mask and snorkel, computer (suunto D9) and Im planning to get either Jetfins or Hollis F1.

My end goal will be have a hogarthian for tech diving so I want everything I buy to be moving towards that.

Any help that people can give me on the above questions is greatly appreciated as is any advice on if you think Im taking the wrong approach.
Thanks

 

[runsongas]

get the 35 pound vdh wing, a ss plate, and a weighted sta.

Store | Vintage Double Hose

the valve donut for the convertible valves is fine, but eventually you will want to convert the legend to din or just get din regs. the din to yoke filling adapter is not intended for underwater use if you have true 300 bar valves.

i dive a fusion tech and it works for me, but i wouldn't pay nearly 2k for it. at that price range, my buddies ursuit from DRIS is far nicer. or look into a suit from one of the uk outfits like seaskin that is cheaper for a MTM.

 

[lowviz]

...//... I've decided to buy a dry suit. ...

Foregone conclusion. Good move.

...//... The LDS recommended against the Everdry ...

Listen to them, the Everdry is total BS. It is a warmish wetsuit.

...//... I've decided to go with a BP/W setup but Im having trouble working out what size of wing I need and if I need stainless or Al. I looked at the buoyancy calculator spread sheet and had a bit of trouble finding a setup that it didnt have issues with in terms of the buoyancy at depth or at the safety. This also leads into my next question which is I need tanks and Im thinking I would like to start with doubles to give me lots of time to get used to them but I dont know if I should be getting Al or steel tanks and what size.
Can someone help me with the buoyancy calculations for what I should be looking at? Im 6'2", 225lb, fairly muscular and most diving would be in fresh water. ...

We've all been there. Unless you are going 'DIR' (either of two agencies) you won't be happy with your first purchases no matter how hard you try. You can, however, put something together that you won't ever regret.

Look into the history of William Hogarth Main. He is quite the experimenter. However, he seems to only get credit for a stable simple rig.

 

[KevlarCoated]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the advice.
On the pricing that is CAD so multiply by 0.75 to get USD (they are all about 1500USD.) Seaskin looks much nicer and will probably come in a bit cheaper after everything. With so many options (looking at the seaskin but Im sure most MTM brands are similar) are there any that would be considered must haves and any that are definitely dont waste your money?

My plan is to eventually either change my current reg to DIN and get a second one or buy a new pair of regs, it will probably depend on how much I like my current reg and how much money I have when it comes time to do that.

Thanks for the recommendation on the wing and plate.

I'll look into Horgarth, I've only really read the wikipedia article and all his ideas seemed to make sense.

 

[RainPilot]

Does anyone have any recommendations either for or against any of those.

I would suggest having a look at www.seaskin.co.uk I am very happy with my suit from them and I don't believe there is a cheaper trilam custom drysuit out there. They also do custom undergarments made to fit you and your DS at a VERY reasonable price.

I have no experience with the models you have shortlisted already.

Im leaning towards getting a DIN to Yoke adapter for the tanks that I end up getting and just sticking with this to save some money for now.

If you are going to tech, then all your regs will end up DIN. I would strongly suggest that you only look at tanks with a DIN capable valve. An adapter is handy if you are planning to take your regs somewhere on a dive trip where only yoke tanks are available, I believe the non-availability of DIN rental tanks is becoming less of a problem as operators are replacing tanks / valves over time. Many operators can get you Din tanks with some prior notice as well.

I would like to start with doubles to give me lots of time to get used to them but I dont know if I should be getting Al or steel tanks and what size.

You aren't going to end up with only one set of tanks as you go on. believe me, this is a pic from where I'm sitting right now:

Since you will be diving almost exclusively in drysuit at home, I would suggest steel tanks since they will reduce the amount of lead you need to carry for the DS. In terms of size, since you are large and muscular (citation needed) I would recommend a pair of tanks of 100 CF. In your place, I would try get a set of doubled 100s and then get the LDS to split them into two tanks. that will allow you to dive single back mount until you are comfortable moving on to doubles, either side mount as is or back mount by replacing the manifold bar.

I suspect that the only aluminium tanks you will buy will be some AL40 later on for deco tanks. There is a scenario where you could get one now and dive it as a slung pony, that will help with bottle handling skills later on and transition to light tech easily, but bear in mind that new gear = new training. Not that you need a specific course but it's best to have someone knowledgeable help with the setup and learning curve flattening.

 

[taimen]

Obviously fit is going to be an important factor. The LDS recommended against the Everdry saying that it didnt allow for sufficient undergarments to be suitable for diving when it gets cold here. Does anyone have any recommendations either for or against any of those.

You want a laminate drysuit and thick undergarments. The suit should fit well, but have enough space to allow free movement with thick heavy undergarments. Some "cave cuts" are perfect with lighter undergarments but restrict movement too much with heavier ones. Seaskin has this plus sizing as an option. It makes the drysuit baggier, but it is essential. After all it is in the cold where you most probably have to shut your valves. Ursuit cuts usually work very well with thick undergarments.

 

[KevlarCoated]

Thanks for the advice everyone.
I priced up a Seaskin Trilaminate with undersuit and dry gloves and it came out to about $1650CAD including shipping which seems like a pretty good deal.

I would recommend a pair of tanks of 100 CF. In your place, I would try get a set of doubled 100s and then get the LDS to split them into two tanks. that will allow you to dive single back mount until you are comfortable moving on to doubles, either side mount as is or back mount by replacing the manifold bar.

I was leaning towards steel tanks, I will keep an eye out for a deal on 100CF tanks. Would a 35lb wing as suggested above be suitable for both single and doubles? (I know that its generally recommended to have different wings since the one for a single tank can be smaller) Would a stainless backplate still be recommended with double 100s?

I suspect that the only aluminium tanks you will buy will be some AL40 later on for deco tanks. There is a scenario where you could get one now and dive it as a slung pony, that will help with bottle handling skills later on and transition to light tech easily, but bear in mind that new gear = new training. Not that you need a specific course but it's best to have someone knowledgeable help with the setup and learning curve flattening.

This is probably a few years off for me but I'll keep it in mind.

Thanks again everyone

 

[runsongas]

the vdh wing is intended only for single tank. the dive rite rec 45lb wing can be used with a single tank by tightening the bungees to make it slimmer, but not very well. plan on getting two separate wings for singles and doubles. ss plate vs aluminum plate for doubles will depend on whether you are head or feet heavy. a tail weight can also work if you need extra ballast.

 

[KevinNM]

Don't be the only guy who buys a dry suit from your retailer this year. Go someplace where they sell a LOT of drysuits and have lots of happy dry suit customers. Getting a $2000 dry suit in 3 months that doesn't fit sucks. Been there, done that. It sucks a LOT more if they blame you for giving them the wrong measurements. Which I haven't had happen, but I've hear horror stories.... Retailers who buy a lot of dry suits have a lot of leverage.

Ideally you go somewhere where they have a range of suits and try them on, and then go diving to see if it really fits (which means wearing the heaviest insulation you ever plan even if it's 85 out). There are places that can do this depending on the suits you want.

If they have to measure and order, well, there is an art to doing this right. See the first paragraph.

 

[lowviz]

Lots of truth above.

I have a baggy, will not die, much repaired, tough as nails, pain in the ass with respect to drag DUI that is my go-to for really cold or rough conditions. It allows for lots of loft in the undergarments. Warm. Mmmmmm.

I also have a Pinnacle that I can't jam my fav undergarments into now matter how hard I try. It is for intermediate temps.

Perfect pair.