New Wing Design

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Maybe, Maybe not. What do you consider to be the cream of the crop?

Don't forget to factor in customer service with the quality of the product. I have personally found both of those to be superior to other brands. Until someone shows me a better product or treats me as well as I have been by them, I will stick with them.

They can also respond to problems and make changes much quicker than most as they actually make their own wings. That's something most manufacturers don't actually do.




LUBOLD8431 once bubbled...
LEts face it buddy, Halcyon isnt the cream of the crop. There will be and is better equipment available.
 
Halcyon makes an outstanding product...I would argue that they are the best wings on the market.

However, if another company were to come out with something that was better, I would consider purchasing it.

My money goes to whomever makes the best product...Halcyon for the time being. I really don't care who makes it, I just want the best.
 
The question isnt what company is "the cream of the crop"...
What i was trying to demonstrate is that DIR TEC DIVER has blinders on and cannot see any other company out there other than Halcyon. I for one have used Dive Rite, OMS, and Halcyon wings. I think they all have good products, and none of them are going to KILL you. I am not so narrow sighted as to say that Halcyon is the best and everyone else is crap. And, I certainly wouldnt speak for the so-called "DIR COLLECTIVE" and say that "they" or "it" would never consider any other company for their gear purchases because HALCYON is the embodiment of everything DIR and if you dont use Halcyon, you could never be a real DIR diver. I think DIR TEC DIVER has drank a little too much of the Kool-Aid that was left out in the sun and a big bug got stuck in the jug that walked through some dog poopie...

Anyways, just my rant...
 
JJ has incredibly intimate ties to both GUE (who train DIR divers) and Halcyon (who sells to DIR divers). I would not be surprised that the gear would have several "perceived" flaws that would make it less than ideal for DIR purposes. Or at least, that might be the party line... :tease:
 
I don't belive that folks are having a debate between an existing product and vaporware. Both sides are being ridiculous on this one...

Roak
 
DIR TEC DIVER, you make me laugh. You are a funny person! Congratulations on your great sense of humor.

Next time you guys are in High Springs, take a tour of the Halcyon plant. Dell is a great guy and Halcyon did a good thing to bring him over from DIVE RITE to design their products.

Wait, let's put this together. About 16 months ago, Halcyon (ran by JJ, Panos, and the others) hired Dell (who was the designer for DIVE RITE gear) from DIVE RITE.
Now, Dell, who was the designer for Dive Rite, designs gear (wings, lights, etc...) for Halcyon.

Rather ironic, don't ya think!

The amusement of watching people with no clue of what they are talking about ramble on so blindly is almost disheartening. This sort of rambling can only come from individuals who are following bits and pieces of a story with no idea of the reality behind the scenes.

As a side note, I greatly appreciate the shorter inflator setup on the Halcyon wings. Aside from that, it's just a wing. I also appreciate Panos, Dell, and the rest of the group at Halcyon. They are doing a wonderful job. JJ and Panos have been able to revitalize the High Springs community by providing jobs to the locals. They have done such a good job of marketing that people from Finland are saying that everything else is junk. Only a Ph. D. in Philosophy could put that one together with the help of a great marketting source.

Cheers guys!!

Keep up the good work.
 
DIR Tec Diver once bubbled...
Lets not make assumptions about popularity with DIR divers accepting a new wing. Halcyon is here to stay, the quality is top notch, they have made improvements on their older design, and everything else is merely an attempt to copy them and make something for themselves. The more people screw around with these designs, shapes, inflators etc. the more they detract from the #1 rule. Keep it simple.

These wings will not have an impact on real DIR divers.

That's OK. There is the whole rest of the non-GUE world to attend to and dive with. I am a DIR diver and proponent as well, but I also recognize that a diver need not be joined to GUE at the hip, nor does one have to buy Halcyon gear to be DIR, that is simply pure Hogwash. DIR is a mindset, not a gear manufacturer or training agency.

http://www.wkpp.org/articles/Gear/equip_moreimages.htm

These are DiveRite plates. GI has no GUE shingles.

Patrick Duffy and I have been collaborating on a lot of equipment *exactly* because the gear offered by Halcyon is not adequate for every application, nor have they ever produced any real innovation. Backplates, wings and all the rest have been around for many years before Carmichael smelled a buck and jumped in and decided that he could define the market. His use of the acronym DIR is marketing, no more, no less.

I worked for Carmichael for a short while (long enough to earn enough money to leave Florida), and while I was there I approached him with marketing my continuous Trimix blender. He didn’t want to deal with "nickel-rocket home compressor owners" and brushed the idea off. Since Patrick and I have installed a few, I can’t build them fast enough.

For instance, our spools have a larger bore, making them easier to use with a gloved hand. I asked for this simple modification back in 1997, and was brushed off. I built my own, other people saw them and used them, so I started making them, started selling them, and now Patrick markets them because they work as designed. Even GI bought a couple. That's evolution over stagnation and arrogance.

I asked Halcyon for a smaller and larger plate back in '97 as well, and was brushed off, not because it isn’t a good idea, or the market doesn’t exist, but because they are restrained by their manufacturing method to one single plate configuration, as they are stamped by coining dies in Taiwan. To make any changes requires new dies ($$$$). Mine are laser cut, and I can make changes and improvements to the geometry in minutes. Mine cost more than double as much to make, but our prices are lower.

Georgitsis rejected the weighted STA I designed out of hand here in Washington, and now Halcyon sells my design
(which I was paid for in full, up front), so you cant even say that there is complete cohesion in the GUE IT base.

The Little Johnson has a few subtle, but effective improvements as well, including a double o-ring seal.

EE lights had some real teething problems as well, mostly due to crap manufacturing and craftsmanship. I don’t know how many I have seen with latch mounting screws pulled out of the dead soft HDPE. HDPE is not an ideal material choice either; it is simply the least expensive plastic in that size range (it is used by the mile in underground water and gas pipes). I also fixed a good number of light slugs and Scout lights that were machined improperly and had chatter in the bottom of the o-ring groove, which is something that should have never made it past QC. On the upside, and to his credit, I called JJ and *****ed about it, and he kicked some tails and addressed the issue.

Digital Dave up in Canada makes the nicest HDPE cannister out there.

With emerging technology like NimH batteries for lights, there is no longer any need for a huge plastic canister to carry a monstrous SLA battery to run halogen lamps with. The Green Force lights that Patrick is distributing are stainless, have no latches to break or pull, and are extremely rugged. The craftsmanship is without peer.

The aluminum STA Halcyon used to sell was a boner from day one, and the major reason why I designed my weighted unit.

Patrick’s wings are designed under the same mantle, and with input from divers. The original Pioneer wings had three sets of grommets, so you could make a few dives and adjust your trim perfectly. In order to increase profits, these additional holes were eliminated, and the STA was eliminated, two small pieces of 5/8 plastic were sewn into the wing, and they pushed this as innovation. Completely eliminated the cost and customer service hassle of that POS aluminum STA, but the price went up. Marketing, no more, no less. And, my lightweight STA is an improvement to the rig, born of the inadequacy we saw in the STA-less set-up. Also, how many of you have had your Pioneer wing shrink along the spine after getting it wet and letting it dry off the rig?

Patrick’s double wing is head and shoulders above the Halcyon wing in craftsmanship and finish. Our new single wing is going to be considerably more streamlined than the Pioneer, better made, and more adjustable for perfect trim.

The difference being that we listen to other divers and address their needs, rather than snowing them with elitism and telling them what they have to dive in order to be cool.

Scott
 
scottk once bubbled...
Our new single wing is going to be considerably more streamlined than the Pioneer, better made, and more adjustable for perfect trim.

The difference being that we listen to other divers and address their needs, rather than snowing them with elitism and telling them what they have to dive in order to be cool.

Scott

Well, when is this wing coming out? As it is, the Pioneer is the only decent single tank wing on the market, as far as I can tell.
 
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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