New Visual Inspection Required Before Filling with Banked Nitrox 32?

[rwkosh]

It’s been a while since I’ve dove anything but air—just didn’t need anything else. Lately, my dive buddy and I have decided to use Nitrox 32 on our first dive to give us a bit more time at depth. He turned in a tank for each of us at the LDS for the Nitrox fill. Both tanks had just been dove, still had a few hundred psi of air in them, and both had valid Viz stickers. The LDS banks Nitrox 32 only—no partial pressure blending.


The guy working at the LDS told my buddy that because he needed to drain the remaining air before filling the tanks, he’d have to perform a visual inspection for $10 each. When my buddy questioned the shop’s owner, he was told that

(1) there is a Federal law that says a visual inspection must be performed prior to filling a tank with Nitrox when it previously had air, and
(2) that any rust in the tank would multiply out of control with the increased air, so he had to do a visual inspection on each tank.


I don’t remember ever hearing of this before. Is the Viz necessary under these conditions or is the LDS just trying to make so extra money?

 

[Jack Hammer]

BS...

Can't tell you if they believe the BS or not... it s been said so many times there are some people who truly believe it to be true and convincing them other wise is a task in itself

Sent via

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The shop is lying through it's teeth. There is no federal law saying what they told you and the rust line is total Horse Crap also.

You should tell this shop that he's a liar and that you'd rather he just tell you he needs the ten bucks to pay whatever it is he needs to pay. Or that his shop policy is that he wants to inspect the tanks that he does not know. Rather than being a lying sack.

Ask him to see that law in writing. Then laugh at him and walk out. If he said it was his policy fine. But he's proven to be a liar and deserves no consideration or respect.

Banked nitrox does not even require O2 clean tanks. All you do is fill and re analyze if you have some air left in there. The 32 is going to come out somewhere under that depending on how much air is left, size of tank, how much they put in.

What LDS is this that is screwing over divers like this?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

... the only federal law pertaining to scuba cylinders is the Dept. of Transportation requirement that your tanks need to be hydro'd once every five years.

Everything else is either accepted industry standards (annual VIP) or shop policy (whatever the shop decides it should be).

Your LDS is not telling you the truth ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

What the shop says is not true, but I would not assume someone is lying just because they tell you something that is untrue.

There is a concept called Hanlon's Razor, which essentially says that it is usually more accurate to attribute something like this to error than malice. Lots of people, including especially dive shop employees and even owners, are confused about a lot of the supposed rules related to this. That is because there is a lot of misinformation being spread around, and it is very possible that they believed some of it.

It may be as simple as a misunderstanding of what is actually taught in most nitrox courses, namely that a nitrox tank is no longer a nitrox tank after it is used with air. That actually relates only to partial pressure filling, not banked nitrox, and even then it is wrong to a large degree. If a tank is filled with air that is pure enough to use for partial pressure blending, then it is still clean enough for partial pressure filling (Duh!), and certainly clean enough for banked nitrox.

If you go into the shop with a chip on your shoulder and then find out that they were simply misinformed, you may lose a potential good relationship with the shop, and they may be very, very glad not to see you again.

 

[Wookie]

Or, just be cool, tell the shop that you'd like your $10 back, and that they must have misread the "federal law". I will tell you now that if you respond like Jim does above, the shop owner tell you to ask for nitrox in one hand and crap in the other and see what fills first. But in this case, the shop owner is wrong. There is no federal law. Now, if you are filling a Luxfer aluminum, it needs to be O2 cleaned (by the manufacturers standards) before putting anything over 23.5% O2 in it. If you would like that in writing, here is the link: Aluminum scuba cylinders in oxygen-enriched and oxygen service - Luxfer: Setting The Standard Worldwide So Jim is not quite right when he says that "Banked nitrox does not even require O2 clean tanks.". But I won't call him out and tell everyone he is full of Horse Crap or a total liar, I'll just say that sometimes Jim is wrong.

Since you mentioned rust, I will tell you from many years of experience that steel tanks with rust in them will rust faster when in the presence of enriched oxygen. That's one of the reasons I am anal about flash rust in my steels and my bank bottles. If you are dealing with steel tanks, you won't have the 23.5% rule for O2 in them, just consider that the shop is doing you a service by verifying the cylinders as ready to receive an O2 fill or a nitrox fill for only 10 bucks, which IMHO is pretty cheap for a drain and inspect. I would assume that if they found great gobs of DC111 in the bottom they might charge you extra to remove it.

So, the shop is mistaken when they talk of "federal regulations", but it's nothing to bluster and carry on about. Maybe they use that excuse so they don't have to confront a bunch of internet know-it-alls when someone switches a cylinder from air to nitrox service. Maybe the ten bucks includes a nice nitrox wrap, not necessary by law either, but required by many dive shops. Maybe the guy you spoke to is tired of folks whining at him about the 10 bucks and he just says it because 99% of the folks will accept the answer. In any case, it's 10 bucks. While you tank is in for service, head over to Starbucks and spend $7.50 on a grande pumpkin spice latte, then go next door to Mr. Bagel and spend $4.85 on a nice everything bagel with a schmear. Put it in perspective. The dive shop isn't out to retire on your $10 tank inspection fee.

Or spend the ten bucks driving around looking for a shop that will fill your tanks just the way they are. I like going into dive shops.

 

[Hawkwood]

Cool responses: everything from simple and direct; to angry; to informative; and lastly, to entertaining.

 

[Dsix36]

Even if you were being intentionally lied to or they were trying to intentionally cheat you, it is still better for you to react in a calm and polite manner. I have always found that a lot can be dealt with via polite conversation rather than name calling and arguing.

Remember that it is their business and they do have the right to refuse service. One customer will not break them.

Arm yourself with the proper knowledge and then approach the situation again. At the end of the day you can make an informed decision to deal with this shop or find another, but why burn bridges without ever trying to negotiate their policy or learn their reasoning.

 

[rwkosh]

Thanks to everyone for confirming what I thought. Jim, if you're really interested in which shop it is, PM me and I'll tell you. I'm on the left coast, so you may or may not know them. I won't put their name out publicly though.

I don't do business with this LDS as a general rule, as I simply dislike their business practices, but my dive buddy is more forgiving than I. I've been happily getting tanks filled at the local Sport Chalet and anything else from DRIS. Unfortunately, when it comes to Nitrox fills, they are the only game in town right now. I will be driving the extra 20 minutes each way to the next closest shop for future needs. Life is simply too short to confront them over an unnecessary $10 charge. By the same token, I am not willing to keep letting them performing unnecessary services. I'll just take my business elsewhere, even if it means driving farther.

 

[rhwestfall]

awooooooooooga! awooooooooooga! awooooooooooooga! (that's the BS alarm sounding)

[the reasons are BS, but the owner of the compressor can set any rules he wants, but shouldn't make up $H*T to justify it]