New to UW Photography - Need advice

[Hotpuppy]

and



A "P&S" like the G11 or S90 will likely cost more than a Sealife, have much greater capability and satisfaction if you are "serious" per your original post.

The Sealife is a very low end auto only camera with a fancy housing that is no better or more rugged than an OEM housing.

The MP Myth is confusing you.

Your posts in several threads and this one seem to conflict, hope you figure it all out . When you know what you want then you can make a better decision.

I see your quandary differently, more like this:

Money Biased Decision <--------vs-----------> Capability Biased Decision

Good luck.
N

While I appreciate you taking the time to respond, you seem to be hung up on attacking my budget. Let's be realistic here...everyone has a budget including you.

 

[Hotpuppy]

IMHO unless you can shoot RAW you will be disapointed in the result. Post processing on land after the fact is so much easier than trying to get the fairly stupid software in the camera to do post processing in the middle of the dive. I spend roughly 20 seconds a picture on post processing, unless I find one I really like and then I might spend two or three minutes. Lightroom is your friend. Not the same process for underwater pictures as it is for above water. The water absorbes light so quickly that the ability to compensate for it after the fact is something you will want to do.

I started with a Sealife and while I got some shots I liked I quickly bumped up against its limitations and moved to a housed dSLR. I suspect as a serious amateur you will bump up against the limitations of a non RAW camera even quicker that I did.

Shooting without a strobe will be frustrating. I did exactly one dive without a strobe with the Sealife and one liveaboard trip with my dSLR with a broken strobe. You can get good pictures without a strobe with a dSLR but you really have to work at it and the deeper you go the less light you have to work with. The point and shoots actually do fairly well without a strobe in mid range shots, but you will want RAW to colour correct after.

I 100 percent agree with you that a strobe is a MUST have. A good strobe will make or break the ability to shoot underwater from what I can tell.

Would you mind telling me what the limitations on the Sealife were that you ran into?

I do agree with Nemrod that the camera inside the housing looks to be rather simplistic. It appears to be a basic German P&S with it's claim to fame being firmware access.

That said, I like the idea of just putting it together and going and with getting support.

 

[vondo]

While I appreciate you taking the time to respond, you seem to be hung up on attacking my budget. Let's be realistic here...everyone has a budget including you.

I didn't quite take it that way, but, yeah, we all have budget. If you want to drop a grand and have no upgrade plans for the future, maybe SeaLife or Sea&Sea is the way to go since there is no real way to get an external strobe otherwise. Although a P&S, manufacturer housing, and Inon D2000 may be close.

If you want to start here and keep expanding your system over time, then a good P&S in either a manufacturer housing or Ike/Fix/etc for now is a good starting point. Then a strobe later. Then another strobe after that, etc. That's sort of my plan too, but to be honest I've also entertained the prospect of chucking it all and looking at other people's photos.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

A reasonable UW photography "path" for a newbie diver is: inexpensive P&S with UW housing --> 1 quality strobe --> another quality strobe --> DSLR with housing that can be used with previously purchased strobes.

A newbie diver lacks the experience and technique (buoyancy control, finning) to get much out a DSLR. In fact, the DSLR is going to be bigger and more unwieldy than a small P&S. I spent $200 for a used Canon A570 + Ikelite housing. I run the camera with the CHDK RAW hack. The camera uses simple, rechargeable AA batteries. It's been a wonderful investment so far.

Listen to what Nemrod has to say. Lots of wisdom there.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Just a few things to add from someone who sells 5 MP P&S stock housing no strobe images (even cropped ones, so less than 5 MP images);

RAW files are only a big help with regards to color correction for ambient light shots. When using a strobe the colors of the strobe lit areas are not going to be any more or less adjustable by using a different file format. RAW files may give you more adjustment for the non-strobe lit areas of a strobe lit picture, ie. background water color or far off reef/wreck. If the entire image is lit by strobe (or on board flash) the RAW file format is not about better color correction.

On my camera the lossless file options are tiff and orf (oly raw file). The tiff is twice the file size of the orf, so with a 1 Gig card I get 69 tiff images or 137 orf images. The next highest resolution file format is SHQ jpg, which is compressed by the camera's software. RAW lets me get more images in a lossless file format. I use other dedicated photo file conversion programs and color correction programs rather than the built in software on my old, cheap, point and shoot camera.

There are many dives where great images can be captured without a strobe. Big animals with lots of white are hard to strobe right. Eagle rays and manta rays often turn out better with no flash or strobe (and whale sharks if you are lucky). Similarly, strobes often can not be positioned correctly for some close ups, so the built in flash works very nicely. This also lets the camera use all it's full auto sensors for lighting control.

The following 4 pics are stock housing, Program Mode, with Auto on-board flash (first 2 are cropped significantly, 3rd one cropped a little)

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These next 4 pics are ambient light, Program Mode, with WAL (wide angle lens).

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This last pic is all manual settings, WAL, strobe and significantly cropped. The white of the shrimp would have been too bright with the stock flash.

​

 

[KhunNeal]

My setup is a Canon S90+Ikelite Housing+single INON S2000+tray
total price is roughly $1000

I'm very happy with the results, will upgrade to a 2nd INON S2000 at some point

The FIX housing looks great, but I had already bought my Ikelite before the FIX was available. If you want to spend a little more I'd get the FIX over the Ikelite (access to rear dial is a big plus)

The Canon S90 is one of the most compact cameras that offers full manual controls, RAW capability, etc... all features you should have for UW work.
The S90 also makes for a very good land camera.

You'll also need some software for post processing, I used photoshop but the Canon does come with its own software for RAW processing.

Recent photos w/ S90+Inon
Picasa Web Albums - khunhappy - Koh Lanta Feb...

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

My conclusions; I am glad my first digital camera purchase was a camera with high quality glass, manual settings and RAW file format. If I had not already owned a compatible strobe, a strobe would not have been the best first addition; the WAL goes on more dives than the strobe. A single high quality strobe more than covers most dive photographers needs.

 

[Nemrod]

While I appreciate you taking the time to respond, you seem to be hung up on attacking my budget. Let's be realistic here...everyone has a budget including you.

No, sorry, I just read your posts in multiple threads and decided I could not help you. You said one thing and then another, and then another. When you figure it out and whatever you figure out I do wish you the best of luck truly. As long as you are happy with the result, that is all that counts.

Me, yes, I have a budget, I tend to save for something I want and that I have researched and decided can accomplish my goals rather than settling for something now that I know will not and thus my "Bias" scale. I research the XXX out of stuff and then make my decision, if I cannot afford it, I wait until I can. I am old school. OMV.

Pssst, I have experience with a DC600 I think it is Sealife that a buddy bought after I told him not to. I mean, he was pleased with it until he realized what it was he did not know and then he was not--at all. My opinion of the camera, having shot it straight up against the Canon 570--myself--same day--same place--same shooter---the little cheapo Canon 570 is a much better camera. I found the lack of control and capability to be frustrating and the photos bland and listless as a result.

N

 

[Hotpuppy]

A reasonable UW photography "path" for a newbie diver is: inexpensive P&S with UW housing --> 1 quality strobe --> another quality strobe --> DSLR with housing that can be used with previously purchased strobes.

A newbie diver lacks the experience and technique (buoyancy control, finning) to get much out a DSLR. In fact, the DSLR is going to be bigger and more unwieldy than a small P&S. I spent $200 for a used Canon A570 + Ikelite housing. I run the camera with the CHDK RAW hack. The camera uses simple, rechargeable AA batteries. It's been a wonderful investment so far.

This was precisely the type of response I was looking for... Thank you.

The nice thing about using AA batteries is that they are widely available should your charger give you grief. Redundancy is always a good thing.

I like the idea of separating the strobe system from the camera system. I think that your ability to take good photos is more dependent on lighting than anything else. Just as importantly it preserves an upgrade path and doesn't necessitate the complete replacement of your kit.

While I like my Pentax and it does what I need, I won't buy another one. I like my Canon HG10 better and will buy a Canon if I go the P&S route. I've actually narrowed it down to looking at one of the following:
1. Used G9 with Canon Housing if the camera and price are right.
or
2. New G11 with Canon Housing.

The posts here helped me feel out some of the issues. I'll tackle the strobe issue separately. It's of equal importance to the camera.

 

[vondo]

This was precisely the type of response I was looking for... Thank you.

The nice thing about using AA batteries is that they are widely available should your charger give you grief. Redundancy is always a good thing.

I like the idea of separating the strobe system from the camera system. I think that your ability to take good photos is more dependent on lighting than anything else. Just as importantly it preserves an upgrade path and doesn't necessitate the complete replacement of your kit.

While I like my Pentax and it does what I need, I won't buy another one. I like my Canon HG10 better and will buy a Canon if I go the P&S route. I've actually narrowed it down to looking at one of the following:
1. Used G9 with Canon Housing if the camera and price are right.
or
2. New G11 with Canon Housing.

The posts here helped me feel out some of the issues. I'll tackle the strobe issue separately. It's of equal importance to the camera.

I'd go with a used G10 over a G9. The lens is wider angle, I believe, and working with the RAW files is also easier (Canon's DPP supports them). I would also seriously look at the S90 over the G11. Same sensor, also does RAW, faster lens. It says the case comes with a flash diffuser, which is crucial. I know Nemrod is intrigued by this camera too, but I don't know if he actually has one.

Disclaimer: I use a G10