New to underwater photography, I'm lost! (Sony RX100 / A6500)

[Pyndle]

Thank you for taking the time to answer Hoag. In all these differences between cases, you don't mention image quality, is that because all cases are the same? I know ergonomy is important but you just have to get used to the button position, no matter how stupid it is I guess.

Also, the RX100V is not enough for what I want to do above water, I need a proper camera with different lenses (super wide and a zoom at least). So when I say RX100 vs A6500, I mean either only A6500 or RX100 + A6500. And in the case of the A6500, I think the only housings available are $1000+, except one brand that doesn't seem really good quality (seafrogs).

Definitely agree with the strobe, tray, macro wet lense. Now the question is
RX100 (do I really need the V?) + Fantasea housing, which will be $800 to $1300 depending on which RX100 I get
or
Just a housing for the A6500 (the $250 seafrogs or a $1000 Fantasea or equivalent).

Underwater the case for the A6500 sounds like a better option, but having 2 cameras is also a nice thing to have. For instance if the case breaks and I lose the camera, it's insured but I'll be happier if I lose the RX100 and still have the A6500 to shot the rest of my trip (traveling for a year!) rather than breaking the A6500 and end up with nothing until I get to a big city to buy a new one. Also good to have the small RX100 for places where I'm not bringing a backpack (like just going close to my hostel for a dinner or a quick night out). But I'm aware this is more of a personal preference, I just need to think about what I really want and how I want to travel and take pictures


Edit: this is the link of the "cheap" case I was considering for the A6500 : https://www.amazon.com/ILCE-6500-Un...ig-20&linkId=69078b02c6d435a26618f36b21d3c08b

 

[Barmaglot]

I have this SeaFrogs housing for my A6300, and I went in this direction for exactly the reasons you're considering - I wanted a reasonably compact and reasonably priced system that would be flexible above and below the water. I was choosing between similarly priced A6300 with kit lens and RX100V and went with A6300 for interchangeable lenses and larger sensor. As long as you're fine with the fixed port option which limits you to the kit 16-50mm and a few other lenses, this housing is perfectly adequate - all the controls are accessible in an ergonomic fashion, and it fits the camera quite closely (unlike some of the Ikelite generic rectangular boxes).

Note that Meikon has announced that they're working on a new interchangeable port housing for A6xxx series. In another post, they mentioned that it's coming after Christmas.

 

[Hoag]

@Pyndle for a flat port, I do not think that there would be a lot of difference between the different manufacturers as far as optics go. This may change however if you start to use a dome port because the surface of the dome port does have a definite role to play from an optical point of view.

Let me throw one more option out there for you. I shoot a Sony A6000 underwater. There are a few differences between the A6000 and the A6500. One of them is that the A6500 can do 4k video while the A6000 is limited to 1080p HD video. Perhaps the more critical difference though is that the A6500 has 5 axis in body stabilization and the A6000 does not. The A6000 and A6500 use the same sensor and (I think) the same processor so image quality should be the same for both.

I have been very pleasantly surprised by the A6000. Perhaps it might be an option worth considering. Right now, the A6000 is on sale including the 16-50mm lens and the housing with lens port for $1500US. This brings the price for the entire package down to not much more than the cost of just an A6500 with lens.

Ultimately, the decision is yours, but I honestly think that you would be disappointed and frustrated if you get a really good camera and then a housing that won't let you effectively and efficiently exploit the features of the camera.

 

[Barmaglot]

The A6000 and A6500 use the same sensor and (I think) the same processor so image quality should be the same for both.

Incorrect, Sony introduced an entirely new sensor in A6300, which they reused (with, I believe, minor refinements) in A6500. Besides 4K video, this sensor improves (through larger individual pixels) low-light performance and has 425 (vs 179 on A6000) phase-detection AF points. A6300/A6500 also have (limited) weather sealing, a level gauge and a significantly improved EVF. A6500 adds IBIS and a touchscreen on top of that.

 

[outofofficebrb]

Wow, thanks a lot for the answers guys, they're very very helpful!!! And great pictures indeed

I think I'm pretty clear on a few things thanks to you now. I'm definitely not getting a wide angle wet lense / dome. I'm definitely getting a strobe (just one for now). Maybe getting a macro lense, I really love macro shots (just spent 2 weeks in Lembeh looking at amazing macro life, I got convinced).

As for the RX100 vs A6500, I think I need to think a bit more about it and try the two cameras (even on land). The larger sensor on the A6500 might help me get more light and better shots underwater, even if slightly more complex to handle (not sure that's even true though). I wish I could see similar pictures underwater taken with both just to compare.

One last question, apologies if it's a stupid one, but do housing impact the quality of the shots? I tend to think they do since you're putting glass between your camera and your subject, but just want to confirm. Maybe I should but flooding doesn't really concern me, I will take insurance anyways and I have the impression that it doesn't happen all of a sudden. Even entry price housings have sensors, the water gets in very slowly (unless your just broke into parts) so just need to come up relatively quickly and it should be fine. I have seen drones falling in the sea and still work fine after two days of drying in a rice bag, camera should be the same no?

You’ll be glad to know that the macro photos are from Lembeh and the wide angle are from Raja Ampat. I went muck diving there for the first time and loved it way more than I thought I would.

I believe image quality will only be affected by the housing because it can determine what lenses you can and cannnot mount on it. Not all wet lenses are the same. Also, you may get some vignetting. I get a little on my RX100 with the wide angle plus dome port. Easy solution, zoom in slightly. But wet lenses aside, I don’t think so.

 

[outofofficebrb]

Thank you for taking the time to answer Hoag. In all these differences between cases, you don't mention image quality, is that because all cases are the same? I know ergonomy is important but you just have to get used to the button position, no matter how stupid it is I guess.

Also, the RX100V is not enough for what I want to do above water, I need a proper camera with different lenses (super wide and a zoom at least). So when I say RX100 vs A6500, I mean either only A6500 or RX100 + A6500. And in the case of the A6500, I think the only housings available are $1000+, except one brand that doesn't seem really good quality (seafrogs).

Definitely agree with the strobe, tray, macro wet lense. Now the question is
RX100 (do I really need the V?) + Fantasea housing, which will be $800 to $1300 depending on which RX100 I get
or
Just a housing for the A6500 (the $250 seafrogs or a $1000 Fantasea or equivalent).

Underwater the case for the A6500 sounds like a better option, but having 2 cameras is also a nice thing to have. For instance if the case breaks and I lose the camera, it's insured but I'll be happier if I lose the RX100 and still have the A6500 to shot the rest of my trip (traveling for a year!) rather than breaking the A6500 and end up with nothing until I get to a big city to buy a new one. Also good to have the small RX100 for places where I'm not bringing a backpack (like just going close to my hostel for a dinner or a quick night out). But I'm aware this is more of a personal preference, I just need to think about what I really want and how I want to travel and take pictures


Edit: this is the link of the "cheap" case I was considering for the A6500 : https://www.amazon.com/ILCE-6500-Un...ig-20&linkId=69078b02c6d435a26618f36b21d3c08b

Based on what you said in beginning about not wanting to lug around weight, I would not do the RX100 + the A6500. It will be a lot of gear. Like I said, the RX100 rig alone I easily carry at least 5kg not including the bag. Add in your land camera and you’ll have a lot.

I’m my research, I read that the RX100V has less battery life than RX100IV which was important to me while diving. It’s not exactly easy (edit: possible) to swap batteries out underwater. I can usually get 2 dives with 1 IV battery. The less I have to open my camera, especially on a boat without camera facilities, the less chance that it will flood because I’m not introducing lint, etc. accidentally. The V is supposed to have faster focusing but reports are that underwater and while in a housing, the difference is negligible and not worth the premium. That is the gist I got so i went with the IV and am happy with it. You also save $ to put towards other components.

Do you have a wide angle light or video light? You could get one strobe and mount a light on the other side. You can then also do some video.

 

[Barmaglot]

FWIW, my A6300 rig (camera, SeaFrogs housing, tray, two normal arms, two float arms, clamps, two Archon D36V lights with batteries, Meikon wet dome with magnetic adapter) weighs a bit under 5kg fully assembled. A diopter and a mid-range wet wide lens (something like Inon UWL series, not Nautical WWL-1) would push closer to 5.5kg.

 

[Edward3c]

Nothing to add in relation to equipment or how you use it underwater.

Pre-dive preparation, don’t become complacent about cleaning both housing seating and o rings each and every time you go out. I did, got away with it a few times then fully flooded the housing, one trashed camera.

 

[outofofficebrb]

Nothing to add in relation to equipment or how you use it underwater.

Pre-dive preparation, don’t become complacent about cleaning both housing seating and o rings each and every time you go out. I did, got away with it a few times then fully flooded the housing, one trashed camera.

Complacency is never a good thing in diving, IMO, and I think you bring up a good point with cameras as well. I still religiously check o-rings whenever I open it and close it. I totally agree!

 

[Pyndle]

Again, thanks for all the messages guys. It's getting clearer and clearer for me.

The more I think about it the more I rule out the RX100 option. It will be heavier, don't want to have to deal with 3-5 spare batteries for each camera with possibly different chargers etc.

As for the A6000 vs A6500, I did consider it but I saw an offer for the A6500 for 800eur second hand (A6000 brand new is 500eur). There's a lense I really want that is not stabilized (Zeiss touit 12mm), hence the need for the A6500. And I like the fact that it's weather sealed (the touit 12mm isn't but other lenses are). 4K is just a nice to have but I wouldn't overpay for it. If I can't find a nice second hand A6500 then I'll buy a new A6000 (and a 10-18mm sony for landscapes, which has stabilization).

I'm going to do some more research about wet lenses to see which one I want for now (just the macro) and which one I might want in the future (wide angle + dome) to consider cases and compatibility. But I might just start with the meikon/seafrogs at $250 for now (and whatever macro lense I can find for it), and worst case I can always sell it and upgrade (my camera/trays/strobes will still be compatible with another housing). What convinced me is the fact that the case doesn't affect picture quality (unless I find out that the only macro lens working for the seafrogs is really awful), and that people seem to say that the ergonomic is not that bad (Barmaglot + a few reviews on the internet).

Same with the strobes. You guys definitely convinced me to get a strobe. Now I need to decide whether I take 2 strobes (and all my videos won't get lit up), 2 video lights that can do strobe as well, one strobe and one light, or just one strobe. I don't even own a "normal" dive light (i.e. not specifically designed for photography) for now...

And thanks for the wisdom words on pre-dive preparation. Definitely something to keep in mind. I've seen shops where the organization is terrible, the whole boat is just a mess, you dive guide rushes you. One day I was still on the boat and my guide was already at 7m waiting for me... (and I'm not particularly slow). Or guides telling you "oh come on you don't need to do your safety check you're fine".

I will definitely keep you posted on what I decide to buy, and send you my first shots I manage to get when I get to the Philippines.