New Princeton Tec Lights

[jnersasi]

Has anyone tried the new Princeton Tec lights? I'm talking specifically about the new Torrent, Miniwave and Shockwave that are claiming to put out about twice the lumens that the old ones do while using the same batteries and getting the same battery life. Could anyone who has tried both give me a rough comparison? In your opinion, is it worth spending the (significant) extra money on this new breed or are they roughly the same as the old ones? Note that I don't really have a good feel for what 47 vs. 95 lumens (for the Torrent) really boils down too. Intuitively it would seem that twice the lumens would be twice as bright, but that seems too good to be true, and "brightness" is a fairly loose and subjective term to begin with.

If anyone from Princeton Tec is reading this I'd be curious to know what your take on the differences is and what new technology made this improvement possible.

Thanks

Jeremy

 

[Packhorse]

LED technology has improved dramatically over the lest few years. Some light manufactures are only now just catching up. Double the output from the same power consumption is easily achieved.
Although a light with twice as many lumen may not quite appear twice as bright it will still be significantly brighter and well worth paying more for IMHO.
Like wise you could drive the newer LEDs at the same brightness as the old ones but achieve longer run times.

 

[Capt. Pete]

Our staff just purchased the new Shockwave LED and the Torrent LED. Having just returned from several night dives in Kona, I was very impressed. Out of several boats worth of divers our staff lights were the brightest with the exception of the HID video lights. Our customers commented that they knew where we were located due to the brightness of our lights. I would second that twice the lumens may not double the visible light but they are bright and a good deal compared to other similar lights. I was not an LED fan in the past however they have come a long way recently and I believe they will give HID a run for their money in the not too distant future.

Just my observations!
Pete

 

[themagni]

The specs that determine brightness mean exactly what the manufacturer want them to mean. Just because a light is rated at 3W or 48 lumens or 27000 candlepower, it doesn't mean a thing. Unfortunately, there are no standards for brightness ratings. This is something that bothers me on a personal level as it has caused me many headaches at work and at home.

You can overdrive an LED and make it brighter but you'll distort the colour. There is a trick you can do to overdrive without colour distortion. Basically, you can flicker the light on and off rapidly at a brightness that would normally burn out the LED. Your eye can't see the flicker, but you can get more out of a cheap LED. If you're using an expensive (i.e. 3W) LED, you can get a very, very nice response. In addition, the power consumption is about the same because it's off half the time.

I have used the Princeton Tec Shockwave (9W) and Torrent (3W) lights. Both are great pieces of kit and work very well. I also have a Pelican Sabrelight 2010. The Pelican is almost as bright as the Shockwave. I haven't had a chance to dive with it yet. The 9W PT Shockwave was reviewed by my diving buddies as "it's like a train coming at you". I did notice that on a dive with a diver who had an HID camera setup, I was whispering on a scream - even with all my lights, I had nothing on the scooter-sized housing.

One missing feature from all of these lights is the ability to focus. I found that they give off a lot of light, but in murky conditions they tend to cloud your vision because they light up the sediment.

These lights are all basic - the brightness is directly dependent on the voltage of the batteries you are using. In other words, you'll get a dimmer light for longer if you use NiMH batteries (they are 1.2V instead of 1.5V); Using rechargeable alkalines will give you an brighter light but may prematurely burn out your LED (They are 1.6V when fully charged). If you're like me and get your batteries at the dollar store, then you get some light for some time and it varies from batch to batch.

As a final note, the warranties that both PT and Pelican have are absolutely top-notch. I would buy the lights again if I had to, but I don't have to because if they ever break they'll mail me a new one.

 

[jnersasi]

Wow. Thanks everyone for the really useful information. I think I will shell out the extra for the new generation lights based off what you have all said.

I agree with Themagni on the PT (I have no experience with Pelican) warranty program. I was amazed at the quick, no questions asked response to an email I sent them in regards to a flooded light. They got back to me within a matter of hours with an authorization to ship the light back to them for free service. It wasn't even a problem that I didn't have a receipt. To be honest, that level of service is why I've decided to buy another PT light and will continue to do so in the future.

One follow up question since you all seem to be pretty knowledgeable wrt dive lights. What have you found the difference in brightness to be between Alkalines and Ni-MH batteries? I'm considering buying the rechargeables with a charger but don't want to do so if there is a significant loss in brightness. I know the Ni-MH's will be dimmer, I'm just curious as to whether they're still acceptably bright. I don't think I want to go the rechargeable alkaline route based off some of the negatives I've read.

Thanks again for the great info.

Jeremy

 

[Packhorse]

NiMh's will not necessarily be dimmer than alkaline. It all depends on the electronics in the light that drive the LED and the configuration of the batteries.
Your average white LED requires about 3.7volt to run at full power. Now if you have 3 NiMh you will only get 3.6v nominal. It will be way more on a fresh charge though. Alkaline cells will give you 4.5 volt but that will drop when they try to give out to much current.

Generally speaking if the light takes 4 or more cells you probably will not see a difference in light output unless the light uses resistors to control the current to the LED instead of regulation circuits. I would avoid any light that uses resistors like this as they just waste energy and you will only get it giving full output on a fresh battery for a short time.

 

[themagni]

As I said, NiMH will be dimmer and last longer. Alkaline, especially rechargeable ones like the Pure Energy brand, will be brighter but last a shorter time. A higher voltage may also shorten the life of the lights. You'll have a hard time finding rechargeable C cells in North America. Most likely you'll have to go with AA cells and a adapters.

I'm not aware of any light that uses special circuitry to keep the output steady. While it sounds odd, that's probably good, because otherwise you'd have no warning that your light is about to die - you'd get bright light and then nothing. Having the light's brightness fade with use will mean that you'll replace the batteries before you're at 60' on a night dive. In order to not burn out the LED completely in a matter of moments, they will include a current-limiting resistor, usually very small.

Note that they don't use average LEDs on the dive lights, and each manufacturer will give you different lights. A more detailed explanation isn't necessary and would take a long time. A normal high-intensity white LED costs me $5(five). The 3W PT ones would cost me ~$50 (fifty) each.

 

[Packhorse]

As I said, NiMH will be dimmer and last longer. Alkaline, especially rechargeable ones like the Pure Energy brand, will be brighter but last a shorter time. A higher voltage may also shorten the life of the lights. You'll have a hard time finding rechargeable C cells in North America. Most likely you'll have to go with AA cells and a adapters.

I'm not aware of any light that uses special circuitry to keep the output steady. While it sounds odd, that's probably good, because otherwise you'd have no warning that your light is about to die - you'd get bright light and then nothing. Having the light's brightness fade with use will mean that you'll replace the batteries before you're at 60' on a night dive. In order to not burn out the LED completely in a matter of moments, they will include a current-limiting resistor, usually very small.

Note that they don't use average LEDs on the dive lights, and each manufacturer will give you different lights. A more detailed explanation isn't necessary and would take a long time. A normal high-intensity white LED costs me $5(five). The 3W PT ones would cost me ~$50 (fifty) each.

I think you would find that many LED dive lights use regulation circuits. But yes many also just use a simple resistor. These regulation circuits can include low battery warning that will dim/flash the LED as voltage drops.
I dont live in North America but I have seen plenty of web sites that sell C sizes NiMh.

As for dive lights not using average LED's Im not sure I understand what you mean by average. There are many dive lights that use XR-E Cree LEDs and these can be brought for about $6 USD. Some use the much higher output SSC P7 or Cree MC-E LEDs. These can be had for about $20-25USD. I very much doubt PT uses a $50 LED

 

[quasimoto]

Does anyone know where the new PT torrent and miniwave lights are available, besides through the PT website? I'm very interested in them but cant visually tell the difference between the old and new lights, and want to be able to shop around a little. . .
thanks guys

 

[jnersasi]

I've seen them on both Amazon and Leisurepro. In every picture I've seen, they look exactly the same, but they are clearly advertised on websites as NEW 95 LUMEN Torrent Led. If you see one, the package should tell you that it's the 95 lumen model. Once it's out of the package, I have no idea how you tell them apart.