New O2 delivery system - input?

[MookieMoose]

Hi all, I am part of a group trying to develop a new O2 delivery system for the dive community that would allow the delivery of 100% O2 by non-rebreather mask for spontaneously breathing people, and/or via a ventilator for non-breathing people for about 90 minutes from a cylinder about the size of a jumbo D, or longer from larger cylinders. I was wondering if you folks think that there might be a market for such a set-up? Just trying to get some sence if this is worth our time and money to develop from the people who ultimately would be using it.

Thanks very much

Cam

 

[pufferfish]

Hi all, I am part of a group trying to develop a new O2 delivery system for the dive community that would allow the delivery of 100% O2 by non-rebreather mask for spontaneously breathing people, and/or via a ventilator for non-breathing people for about 90 minutes from a cylinder about the size of a jumbo D, or longer from larger cylinders. I was wondering if you folks think that there might be a market for such a set-up? Just trying to get some sence if this is worth our time and money to develop from the people who ultimately would be using it.

Thanks very much

Cam

How will your system be different from what DAN already sells?

 

[DandyDon]

Have you looked at this thread for a venilatror dependent member who dreams of scuba diving? http://scubaboard.com/t61189-scuba-diving-dream-for-md-patient-on-a-ventilator.html

He already have several university engineering schools working with him, and is now talking with NASA.

And he's a pretty neat fellow. :cheering:

 

[MookieMoose]

How will your system be different from what DAN already sells?

I'm sorry if I'm being a little vague, I don't want to put too many details out there for fear that somebody may try to scoop us. There would be 2 major differences between what we are working on and what DAN currently offers. First would be the primary tool available for the resuscitation of non-breathing patients. it's a device my partner designed and produces called the 'Oxylator'. It is a vastly superior to the standard bag-valve mask for ventilation of patients in need of ventilatory support. For more information look here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15141793

As a side note, this device is currently the standard of care used by EMS in many of the delopped southeast asian countried (ex. Singapore, Korea)

The other thing we're trying to do is provide a greater supply of gas than is currently available in most portable therapeutic oxygen delivery systems. Exactly how we're going todo this I don't want to say, but the plan is to make our system compatible with different storage cylinders than are currently used for medical oxygen. The current DAN kit comes with a Jumbo D O2 cylinder. This will provide about 25 minutes of O2. We're hoping to be able to mate our system with cylinders larger than this, (but still easilly portable) and able to store O2 under higher pressures, so you could get several hours supply of oxygen out of a single cylinder.

One of the things that prompted this venture was seeing a number of threads on this board about 'what to do if you need to transport a DCS patient back to shore, but your transport time is going to be substantially longer than your O2 supply?' We're hoping to put greater O2 supply in the hands of divers to overcome this scenario, and also provide a beter, safer means of ventilating the non-breathing patient, whether they are unconsious due to a heart attack, or pulmonary barotrauma.

Thanks very much.

Cam

 

[padiscubapro]

I'm sorry if I'm being a little vague, I don't want to put too many details out there for fear that somebody amy try to scoop us. There would be 2 major differences between what we are working on and what DAN currently offers. First would be the primary tool available for the resuscitation of non-breathing patients. it's a device my partner designed and produces called the 'Oxylator'. It is a vastly superior to the standard bag-valve mask for ventilation of patients in need of ventilatory support. For more information look here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15141793

As a side note, this device is currently the standard of care used by EMS in many of the delopped southeast asian countried (ex. Singapore, Korea)

The other thing we're trying to do is provide a greater supply of gas than is currently available in most portable therapeutic oxygen delivery systems. Exactly how we're going todo this I don't want to say, but the plan is to make our system compatible with different storage cylinders than are currently used for medical oxygen. The current DAN kit comes with a Jumbo D O2 cylinder. This will provide about 25 minutes of O2. We're hoping to be able to mate our system with cylinders larger than this, (but still easilly portable) and able to store O2 under higher pressures, so you could get several hours suply of oxygen out of a single cylinder.

One of the things that prompted this venture was seeing a number of threads on this board about 'what to do if you need to transport a DCS patient back to shore, but your transport time is going to be substantially longer than your O2 supply?' We're hoping to put greater O2 supply in the hands of divers to overcome this scenario, and also provide a beter, safer means of ventilating the non-breathing patient, whether they are unconsious due to a heart attack, or pulmonary barotrauma.

Thanks very much.

Cam

You have to be more specific, both DAN and ANDI offer systems that get HOURS out of a jumbo d cylinder..
Both systems are surface rebreathers...

 

[MookieMoose]

You have to be more specific, both DAN and ANDI offer systems that get HOURS out of a jumbo d cylinder..
Both systems are surface rebreathers...

I'm not sure exactly what you would like to know. What I'm working on is not a rebreather system. It would allow O2 to be stored at much higher pressures than are currently available in medical oxygen cylinders, and would allow delivery of O2 via non-rebreather mask and the ventilator referenced above. If you have specific questions I'll do my best to answer them.

Thanks

Cam

 

[pufferfish]

I am not clear on how the extra flow time will be achieved. You say the same Jumbo D tanks that are currently in use at one point and later I see a reference to a new high pressure tank?

 

[MookieMoose]

I am not clear on how the extra flow time will be achieved. You say the same Jumbo D tanks that are currently in use at one point and later I see a reference to a new high pressure tank?

Our system would mate with different tanks, not the Jumbo D typically supplied with O2 delivery kits. What will be really different about our system is a regulator which will allow the use of much higher O2 supply pressures, and the Oxylator.

 

[pufferfish]

Our system would mate with different tanks, not the Jumbo D typically supplied with O2 delivery kits. What will be really different about our system is a regulator which will allow the use of much higher O2 supply pressures, and the Oxylator.

If a new higher pressure tank is to be used how will one get it filled in remote locations? Filling tanks with high pressure O2 (higher than Jumbo D) must come with more attention to fill technique and cleanliness. I am not sure in the remote areas where it would be nice to have a 90 minute tank of 100 percent O2 one could get the fills easily done. What pressures are you thinking about?

In the abstract above it mentions firemen using your product. How much training would be required to use the Oxylator? One of the benefits of the current system despite the disadvantages is the simplicity and ease of use especially on a small boat that may be pitching in rough seas. If the skill set required to use your device in an unconscious person is too complex then the goal of widespread use will not be reached.

 

[padiscubapro]

Our system would mate with different tanks, not the Jumbo D typically supplied with O2 delivery kits. What will be really different about our system is a regulator which will allow the use of much higher O2 supply pressures, and the Oxylator.

If it were high pressure fills I definately would recommend against it.. The higher the pressure the more dangerous oxygen becomes. It becomes more dangerous to fill, more dangerous to use, only only shops with a good booster pump would be able to fill it.. I know I can pump gas high enough to blow up a cylinder but I wouldn't fill oxygen above 3000 psi and usually limit fills to not much more than 2000 psi (the exception being RB divers)

The DOT does allow oxygen at pressures up to 6000 psi, but simply turning on a valve at this pressure could start an oxygen fire.. You definately would require valves that would severely limit the flow of gas since pressurization 0 to say 6000 psi can cause a HUGE rise in temperature, just rising a few hundred psi creates lots of heat.

At this point cleansiness is an absolute must, the cylinders and associated regs would have to be maintained in a sealed state or permanently connected..

High pressure oxygen just say no....
I surface rebreather or larger cylinders are definately a much safer solution..