New level of insta-buddy trouble

[ItsBruce]

DON'T ANY OF YOU GUYS WORK? Where do you have the time to monitor this thread?

Darnold9999: The dive industry is not really creating a duty. It was the judge's comments that give me pause. Perhaps the best thing to do is change liability waiver forms to include not only the dive operator, etc., but to also include the buddy.

Again, note, I'm not worried about buddies I bring with me. I only worry about insta-buddies.

 

[Cacia]

well, PADI (legal department ) told me the biggest mistake they see is operators using the same waiver for Certified divers as for intros. They say the language outlining the divers responsibility for his own dive is fundamentally different than the one most commonly used for people receiving instruction. They claim that your real risk is determined (liability) by which state you are in, as some states have strong liability release laws and some don't. I think if I remember correctly California was favorable for the operator and Hawaii was one of the worst. Whoa, we have Japanese getting in here who haven't understood a word. Nobody ever says "hey, this person does not know English so they can't dive". If they are certed and want to follow the leader, ..off they go. It is just too complicated. Do we want to say we cannot travel and dive where there is a language barrier?...and to what degree? It is endless. The only answer is that people know their own limitations and use their own brains.

 

[surfsidedav]

DON'T ANY OF YOU GUYS WORK? Where do you have the time to monitor this thread?

Darnold9999: The dive industry is not really creating a duty. It was the judge's comments that give me pause. Perhaps the best thing to do is change liability waiver forms to include not only the dive operator, etc., but to also include the buddy.

Again, note, I'm not worried about buddies I bring with me. I only worry about insta-buddies.

I work from home, so keeping up with this is much more entertaining than what I should be doing.

 

[wedivebc]

DON'T ANY OF YOU GUYS WORK? Where do you have the time to monitor this thread?

.

Hey, doesn't everyone work in front of a computer screen these days. It's easy to multitask when you are doing something boring.

 

[Darnold9999]

Respectfully disagree, by creating the "buddy system" as the recreational dive industry standard and enforcing it to the degree that on many charters you will not be able to dive solo without a solo diver certificate the industry is "creating" the standard.

and now I am off to work ... damn this is interesting

I am now going to have to do something I havn't done in years "legal research".

 

[Diver0001]

The point is that the moment you open this particular door (note I said this is a big IF) then you do have a duty of care and someone else - not you - decides what that duty is and if you breached it. If you at the time evaluate the risk as too great and decide not to help - as I was taught in my rescue course is the appropriate response in such a case - but a judge disagrees, your life savings just disappeared.

A duty of care is not a bad thing. We all have a duty of care in many of our daily activities. We hardly notice them because we morally know that we have these responsibilities and we accept them. We are trained as divers to share air, stay within certain limits, try not to get separated and so forth. If you except the roll of buddy then you accept the package that comes with it. I simply don't see the rub.

Personally, I prefer to remain responsible for me and will render all the aid I can.

You simply can't (and shouldn't) have it both ways. Being a buddy carries certain responsibilities for both parties. Not wanting to accept these responsibilities is a good argument for diving solo but the concept of the "no strings attached" buddy is unacceptable and misguided, IMO.

Given that the agencies and instructors stress the buddy system, your responsibilities within it, and have made carrying an octo for sharing air the "standard" equipment for divers, it is entirely possible that the dive industry is creating a legal duty where one did not exist.

The moral duty always preceeds the legal duty. The law is simply a reflection of a moral norm or value.

This has consequenses that are worth exploring beyond the simplistic, if you are worried about this you must be a lousy buddy.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this.

R..

 

[Diver0001]

DON'T ANY OF YOU GUYS WORK? Where do you have the time to monitor this thread?

Darnold9999: The dive industry is not really creating a duty. It was the judge's comments that give me pause. Perhaps the best thing to do is change liability waiver forms to include not only the dive operator, etc., but to also include the buddy.

Again, note, I'm not worried about buddies I bring with me. I only worry about insta-buddies.

When you're at work my day is already done. When other people would be watching TV I'm usually here...

R..

 

[pcarlson1911]

Horn -
You got it right in your last paragraph. If more people helped others it would be a better world. Too many people worry about the ramifications of helping. I know we also need to think about our own safety and security, but what ever happened to heros?

 

[hlsooner]

At some point, when I can find the time, I will do some legal research to find out if a diving buddy has ever been found liable for the injuries suffered by his buddy, excluding intentional acts of harm. My gut feeling is no, but this is a state law issue, so you have 50 jurisdictions to search.

 

[Meng_Tze]

At some point, when I can find the time, I will do some legal research to find out if a diving buddy has ever been found liable for the injuries suffered by his buddy, excluding intentional acts of harm. My gut feeling is no, but this is a state law issue, so you have 50 jurisdictions to search.

If this would be happening..........we are doomed. Solo diving for everyone......:06: