new fin concept

[Just_Me]

Keep in mind that a provisional patent will require drawings. If you intend to change your drawings your provisional may not be valid. Proof of concept is important on this type of product.

I have ridden this train before.

 

[Bob Evans]

Netdog and Dan are right on about my feeling's on the Dive Industry. But, as life goes on I am looking to the positive side....and those who did us harm are almost all gone now.. Our special spot at ScubaBoard has been fresh air and " Where did I go with Force Fins" http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/force-fin/280732-where-did-i-go-my-force-fins-43.html#post6840299 With over 60,200 views and rapidly growing. We always have a moment of silence for another new fin company, it's a uphill battle... but maybe changing with the ability to tell your story for Free here on Scubaboard

 

[danvolker]

And this goes to the uphill battle of creating a new fin, in opposition to ScubaDiving Magazine, DEMA, and the inventories of Dive Shops all over the world....THEY WANT TO SELL WHAT THEY HAVE... The print mags will only provide good reviews if you pay them huge money, and even then, it would be like trying to make a deal with a Mexican Drug Cartel. You really would not know how you would come out of it.

Divers themselves just don't care much about fins...I don't get it...to me it is a huge big deal...... For over a year I have been very vocal that any visitors here to Palm Beach can try a pair of Force Fin Excellerators--an amazing and revolutionary fin..or even a pair of $500 composite DiveR Freediving fins--what I call the Lamborghini Gallardos of fins...yet maybe 5 people have actually taken me up on this....This would be a real demo of as many hours as they wanted at the BHB Marine Park, or even on a charter boat.....

Divers get "SOLD" by their Dive Shops.....Dive Shops will do the thinking for the divers, and they will decide what they want you to drool over. They have the juice.

So if you want to invent the "new" BEST fin, figure out how to afford dealing with the Cartels, and how to get shops to desire to push it over expensive existing inventories.


*** But hey, you can make me a pair!!!!! ***

 

[Dr. Lecter]

As long as we're wildly OT, I'll ask Dan that if complicated wreck penetrations were the main reason he went diving in the first place... what would he think would be better: cut-down DiveRs or Force Fin Excellerators? I'm always happy to try something other than my Jets, but it needs to work for what I like to do, not just burning through open water.

 

[danvolker]

As long as we're wildly OT, I'll ask Dan that if complicated wreck penetrations were the main reason he went diving in the first place... what would he think would be better: cut-down DiveRs or Force Fin Excellerators? I'm always happy to try something other than my Jets, but it needs to work for what I like to do, not just burning through open water.

From the mid 70's to the late 90's, the main thing I cared about was spearfishing, and the freedive fins I switched to from Jetfins around 1994, became far superior in practically all diving environments I would spearfish in....Some of the 280 foot deep wrecks I did with George and Bill in the mid and late 90's had me following them into corridors and passageways, still with my speargun, hoping I would find a large fish while wasting my time in the passageways with my dive buddies....once in a blue moon, there would be a fish inside, but not usually....most of the big fish I shot were in the area of the deck, or the superstructure, the rigging, etc.
The freedive fins were so-so when I would be following....If they told me ahead of time we would be doing a serious penetration, I would have used my jet fins( this did happen with some dives, when we had a "mission"

The short answer, Doc, is the penetrations are not what I care about, so wearing fins made just for this is not going to interest me.

The Excellerators are amazing at this precise control needed for exploration level penetrations and delicate reel work deep in a corridor. And, unlike the Jet fins, if you find you have to go up current outside the wreck somewhere, and you can't go hand over hand--if you have to do a max paced flutter kick for a minute or two.....( not saying this should happen....I am saying it "can" happen..can become desirable --for me, as a videographer ) Could happen if you needed to help someone....If this occurs, the upcurrent swim with sp jets is inefficient...the Excellerators improve in efficiency as you increase kick turnover, and propulsive power can be sustained at much higher levels than would be possible for a jet fin wearing evil twin. Again, my DiveR's would do far more, but would be unmanageable in a tight overhead and narrow crawlspace type penetration. There are divers that are mostly wreck divers....I freely admit this is not me.... I am on open reefs more often, and when I am in most wreck penetrations, the room, and the reasons for it, are more like this :

[video=youtube_share;vGB8XNq8QF0]http://youtu.be/vGB8XNq8QF0[/video]
Penetration starts at about 43 seconds in if you want to jump ahead. For this, freedive fins have no downside, and actually offer a more stable video platform--easier to make video stable/not shaky.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

I understand how you feel about wrecks, but I didn't see an answer to the question posed in there. It was which would you suggest between cut-down freediving fins and Excellerators -- but I can't seem to find that model on Force Fin's site anymore anyway, so it's probably moot.

I would consider the video you posted a swim-through, unless you edited out some interior navigation I didn't see. Great looking fish, though.

 

[danvolker]

I understand how you feel about wrecks, but I didn't see an answer to the question posed in there. It was which would you suggest between cut-down freediving fins and Excellerators -- but I can't seem to find that model on Force Fin's site anymore anyway, so it's probably moot.

I would consider the video you posted a swim-through, unless you edited out some interior navigation I didn't see. Great looking fish, though.

I'd call it a swim through too..even though there was a little restriction on getting in....and this is the point...if you want to see big fish, lots of fish, you will see them in places like this, and you WON'T see them in tight penetrations to the innards of most ship wrecks...with that said, there is a compartment that is directly under the swim through area, about 2.5 feet high or maybe 3 feet in someplaces, where it can be loaded with goliaths, but the goliaths silt this area up badly, it is hard to move around in, and lame for video--aside from being an exploration level skill-set dive, and one you would NOT want freedive fins on....

As to the Excellerators or the cut down DiveR's..... It would not be fair to guess.... I know the Excellarators do this job extremely well, really unmatched. I have never cut any of my freedive blades.
If I had to guess....the DiveR's could not be more precise than the Excellerators...so the only real issue would be if you had to do an emergency high pace swim, which would be better?
Part of the reason the DiveR's are so efficient, is the kick shape you can use on a fin more than twice the length of any scuba fin. Cut that in half, and while the exotic carbon fiber composite may still play a big factor, in all fairness to the Excellerators, these were developed with great science, they are unique hydrodynamically, and if the DiveR's were the same length, I would not want to bet against the Excellerators.
If you wanted to pay for the DiveR blades to cut, I would be happy to do the Testing

 

[notation]

Netdog and Dan are right on about my feeling's on the Dive Industry. But, as life goes on I am looking to the positive side....and those who did us harm are almost all gone now.. Our special spot at ScubaBoard has been fresh air and " Where did I go with Force Fins" http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/force-fin/280732-where-did-i-go-my-force-fins-43.html#post6840299 With over 60,200 views and rapidly growing. We always have a moment of silence for another new fin company, it's a uphill battle... but maybe changing with the ability to tell your story for Free here on Scubaboard

Hi Bob, nice to meet a grandmaster! I enjoyed viewing your youtube video and now understand the concept of the Force Fin you have researched and developed for many years. Your work and dedication is extraordinary and the fussing is just downright rude and disrespectful.

Would you be interested in checking my fin drawing? The principle of the thing modifies surface area and topology to enhance fluid flow in a positive way. The fin would definitely work sideways and up/down, any way of the kick. Fin length is optional!

I believe the best plan, from all the comments, is to file a patent application and seek investors, unless some other opportunity comes into play. The marketing aspects look to be challenging though. I'm a novice here.

 

[Bob Evans]

Dear Notation. The good advice from those on Scubaboard and my self would be to make sure all who you show your idea, sign non-disclosure agreements first, then file those patent applications and seek investors. Sure I like to support new ideas...but new ideas and dreams come to all of us. I always tell Susanne, my wife and life partner, ideas are like seeds to the mind and those who learn how to plow the field with their sweat and hard work see the rewards. Please, remember you are taking on an adventure, and no one who is willing to risk is a novice. Go forward and make the change to the world that your destiny drives. Best, Bob

 

[gekodivebali]

I'd love to try all these new fins but they are nowhere to be seen in my turf. Have the scuba police paid Indonesian customs in order to prohibit their import into the country or the manufacturers failed to get their products across? Wait a minute, this makes no difference at all, they're just not here...