New diver looking to purchase first BC, lots of questions...

[Maynerd]

Background, I'm at 22 open water dives and am thinking about purchasing a BC as I have accumulated all other essential gear. I'm hoping to find something that travels relatively light.

I see I have many options to choose from...

- Standard Jacket

- Back inflate

- Back Plate and Wing.

For some reason I find the BP&W the most appealing as it appears as if it can "grow" as I do while being able to maintain a minimalist configuration for air travel. My LDS recommends against it and is steering me more toward a jacket style setup. They say that a BP&W wouldn't be the best setup for a new diver.

I am also intrigued by the SeaQuest Dimension i3. Of all of the BC's it seems to be the slickest, however I am aware that (looks) gimmicks don't always translate into greater function.

Next I find myself looking at many of the Zeagles and lastly the Scubapro Knighthawk.

Finally, what is the merit of integrating the octo into the BC, i.e. Air II? If I already have a reg set with an octo is it worth "upgrading" to an Air II?

Another finally, New vs Ebay, Craigslist or here?

Any thoughts?

 

[melanie.]

BP&W!!!! I only wish I had known these existed before buying my current gear

 

[mdax]

I would definitely go with a back plate and wing. I have both DSS and Halcyon and love them both...

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The only reason your LDS is trying to steer you away from the BPW is likely that they don't sell them and don't know how to set one up. It's not hard by the way. The markup on the jacket is also likely much higher. And you are completely correct in that a BPW will "grow" with you as your diving evolves.

It can be configured in a myriad of ways to suit and, most importantly, fit you. They do not push you face forward in the water as you will sometimes hear from those who have little experience with them, are not properly weighted, or over-inflate the wing (usually caused by being overweighted). You will find it easier to pack for travel since it is modular and can be broken down into it's individual components. There are no gimmicks that require extra service and repairs, if needed, are generally easy and cheap. You can also switch between wing sizes to suit single tanks, doubles, or heavy steels.

If you have a conventional octo going to an integrated one would be a big step down in my opinion. It may be marketed as more streamlined but in reality I don't see it. A properly stowed conventional octo or one bungeed under the chin with the primary on a longer hose is much more convenient, easier to use in an air share situation (especially for newer divers that have been trained with the conventional set up), and it is usually much less expensive.

Where you buy is not as important as knowing what you are buying. Ebay and Craigslist are fine if you know what you are looking for and what questions to ask. Buying here is generally safe as this is a pretty tightknit community and those who rip people off are soon outed and get lots of negative publicity. There are also many new gear dealers that are members here and offer deals to other SB members.

Doing that can often make more sense. Those of us who sell gear want to have good reviews and reputations and even though we may not be able to match the prices of used gear you get a warranty and access to service issues very fast. I'm available 7 days a week for sales, questions, and quotes thanks to smart phone technology. Other dealers are also on after hours, and on weekends as well. I do believe in giving your LDS a chance but if they are not listening to your needs and wants, trying to steer you in a direction that benefits them more than you, or is just plain outrageous in their pricing there is no need to deal with that. Shops that do business that way are often the ones that complian the loudest about the net taking away business. Well DUH. What do they expect?

There are now also companies that are taking a hard look at the relationship of the LDS/mfg/diver and seeing that the old model is not always in the divers best interest. And so they allow on line sales, small dealers, and offer things like direct shipping to the consumer. Those are the ones I choose to do business with.

 

[a22shady]

BP/W IMO is the best BC to go with especially for newer divers because it can grow and adapt as you and your diving changes. You won't need to buy different Bc's if one day you want to dive Doubles just get a doubles wing and it bolts on. All D-Rings/Crothc strap etc are there.

 

[k ellis]

Zeagles will also grow very nicely with you as you grow as well. Though not as much as a BPW but they still are a modular design on many of their products. I would recommend myself going with the RANGER LTD. as it is a very user friendly. It allows you to upgrade to doubles in the future should you decide to go that route, It allows you to replace pieces of the BCD that may break without having to be a rocket scientist and its also assembled in the Unitied States.

Now for your question of integration is really a very complex question to ask as its very situational and diver dependant. I personally use the Octo-Z which is the AIR II equivalent. These are in my opinion a better option then the spare octo as you emliminate a spare hose flailing around and for me its simpler to use as I am well practiced in how to use it in an emergency. This is something you yourself should practice too if you decide to go this route as its a simple operation but requires some adapting to this over time. The Air2 does however pose a challenge to Tech Divers I have heard and for this reason is very rare to see a tech diver use one. Also with the fact that very very few people have a long primary hose the air 2s limited length is not a viable option for cave divers or serious wreck divers who do deep penetrations.

As to if its worth setting it up for the air 2 with an existing reg I would say as an opinion it would be but only if you trully feel confident that is the system you want. Only you know what works best for you. the best advice I can give is to see if you can try some of these out at a local shop and see how you like it but dont decide on one dive. Try several dives and see what you think over several trials.

Ebay and Craigslist. Now this is a challenge in itself because there are several good items for sale every day on there but there are also tons or people who have worthless junk or items unserviceable on there. Be very careful when buying on there as some items such as Dacor made great products years ago but since they are long since out of business getting replacement parts have proven to be an extreme challenge for many divers recently.

 

[scubamonster]

A Halcyon Infinity 40Lb BC System With Stainless Steel Backplate and 6Lb Convertible Single Tank Adaptor.Your First and Last BC .

 

[scubamonster]

and Buy it From a Dive Shop not online ,Ebay or Creigs List . Support your local businesses Dive Shops dont stay open by classes,Rentals and Air sales only.

 

[Maynerd]

Thanks for all of the replies, please keep them coming. Unfortunately I am going this alone and other than this board have very few sources of information regarding which direction to go.

scubamonster, I have a very good relationship with the LDS and to date all of my gear has been purchased through them. Some prices were very competitive and some were substantially higher than what I could have purchased them for elsewhere. In any event they treat me exceptionally well and I truly like everyone that works there. That being said, I don't like being tied to the one and only brand the shop carries and I want what is best for me not what the shop has available to sell. Let's just say I want to broaden my horizons and get something that will suit my needs for years to come. I don't want to spend $600 on a BC only to wish for something different next year but will have to live with my decision because I can't afford to or won't indulge myself with unnecessary wants.

Unfortunately my experience is limited and local resources are few so I have to rely on the internet for purchasing information and advice. I do think the LDS is looking out for me but maybe only after looking out for themselves first.

My primary thought is that a BP&W would be the way to go but I can't find anything to support or dispute my thoughts.

What is it that makes a BP&W a "Tech Diver" rig only and why would or wouldn't such a setup be suited for a beginner diver?

 

[k ellis]

I do think the LDS is looking out for me but maybe only after looking out for themselves first.

Sadly there is to some degree truth in this statement. A LDS wont survive by refering you to their competitor. They want your business and they can only get it with products they sale.

As for the BPW its a matter of preference. Though many people swear by them I am in the select few who prefer not to use one. The reason that they are not recommended for beginners is partially because they are usually custom set up for the diver with few setups being identical. This plays a hard role in trying to teach new divers how to use one when no 2 may be set up identically. There are so many things you can put on a bpw with so many types of options. Such as steel backplates and aluminum back plates then there are D rings and how many you want. There are crotch straps if you choose to have them then there are those with out them. You have the option of what size bladder do you want with several diffrent sizes. You then have to decide if you want to set it up for singles or doubles however you can switch back and forth with the needed parts and a little time (This becomes an easy thing to do for a more experienced diver but can be a challenge for newer divers for a short period of time getting used to the gear)

BPWs serve a good purpose for those who choose to use them and swear by them but just remember that it is in fact gear like any thing else so you will get unlimited opinions on them. Its like asking which is better a Ford or a Chevy.