Nekton boats may come back!!

[cappyjon431]

but today, I doubt most of the folks here would book a trip w/o nitrox as an option.

they'd choose another liveaboard that had it.

Last couple liveaboards I've been on, out of roughly 20 spots, only 1-2 people don't dive nitrox.

I agree Mike, I pushed for getting nitrox on the boat from my first day working on the Pilot (I was the only nitrox instructor on the boat and I saw it as a way of increasing my own income as well as increasing the boat's income). I recognized in 1995 that nitrox was going to be the wave of the future, especially with PADI finally embracing the "devil gas." I debated it with JD for years and it wasn't until the competition started offering nitrox on a large scale that the company decided to follow the trend. Unfortunately for me, it didn't become available until I had left the boat. Unfortunately for Nekton guests, JD installed a system that was capable of delivering an unreliable and usually low mix.

I was merely suggesting that it was a stretch to blame a low mix (25%-28%) for contributing to cases of DCS. First, trained nitrox divers should base their dives on the mix actually provided, not on some magical 32% or 36% o2 level. Second, historical evidence demonstrated that when nitrox was not available (over a very long period with a large number of divers doing 4-5 dives a day) there were minimal cases of DCS.

 

[Wookie]

I agree Mike, I pushed for getting nitrox on the boat from my first day working on the Pilot (I was the only nitrox instructor on the boat and I saw it as a way of increasing my own income as well as increasing the boat's income). I recognized in 1995 that nitrox was going to be the wave of the future, especially with PADI finally embracing the "devil gas." I debated it with JD for years and it wasn't until the competition started offering nitrox on a large scale that the company decided to follow the trend. Unfortunately for me, it didn't become available until I had left the boat. Unfortunately for Nekton guests, JD installed a system that was capable of delivering an unreliable and usually low mix.

I was merely suggesting that it was a stretch to blame a low mix (25%-28%) for contributing to cases of DCS. First, trained nitrox divers should base their dives on the mix actually provided, not on some magical 32% or 36% o2 level. Second, historical evidence demonstrated that when nitrox was not available (over a very long period with a large number of divers doing 4-5 dives a day) there were minimal cases of DCS.

I'm going to humbly present another viewpoint, Cappyjon. We've had nitrox on the Spree since 1999. The previous owner charged 10 bucks a fill for it, and we had 2-3, as many as 10 per boatload using nitrox. Our bends rate was .03%, right in line with industry standards. In 2002, we had 8 cases of DCS, but hadn't had any in the prior 3 years, so we were still at average. I bought the boat in 2003. In 2005, we had another terrible year, with 8 cases noted. I looked at the problem and saw that all but 1 case was divers on air. In 2006, I started supplying nitrox at no additional charge. It doesn't cost me anything to make except a little diesel fuel, so I thought why not. I can't tell you what my bends rate is today, because we haven't had any cases since 2006. We have over 98% of our customers using nitrox. I offer a free nitrox experience to any customer on the boat. They get the entire class at no charge, but do not receive a certification at the end of the experience. I still get 2 or 3 folks a year that have nitrox cards but insist on using air, but they are rare. For liveaboard diving, nitrox is the only way to go, and should be mandatory for many repetitive dives per day.

 

[daniel1948]

Nitrox is great stuff, if you are happy with the depth limits (which I am). And it gives you more bottom time, which is cool. When I was diving air I sometimes had to surface because I was running low on no-deco time even though I still had plenty of gas, and this has not happened to me since I began using nitrox.

HOWEVER, if divers are getting bent because they are diving air, then they were either improperly taught how to dive, or they are not following the rules they were taught. Of course there will be accidents, and DCS is a probabilistic event, and not every case of DCS will be the diver's fault. BUT if you are seeing a statistically significant higher rate of DCS in divers on air than divers on nitrox, then those divers are ignoring their computers or their tables, because air is as safe as nitrox, and vice versa, if you observe the limits of each, and with air that often means watching your no-deco time. I hear enough stories of divers running out of air for no reason, or exceeding their no-deco time for no reason, to make me wonder about the quality of training, or the intelligence of those divers. A diver who must be given nitrox to keep him from exceeding his no-deco time should not be allowed to dive.

As for the original topic, nitrox is a moot point: The gas provided by Nekton in the past is not relevant to the question of whether the boats could be brought back into service. It would be a trivial matter to install nitrox equipment.

 

[mitsuguy]

I'm going to humbly present another viewpoint, Cappyjon. We've had nitrox on the Spree since 1999. The previous owner charged 10 bucks a fill for it, and we had 2-3, as many as 10 per boatload using nitrox. Our bends rate was .03%, right in line with industry standards. In 2002, we had 8 cases of DCS, but hadn't had any in the prior 3 years, so we were still at average. I bought the boat in 2003. In 2005, we had another terrible year, with 8 cases noted. I looked at the problem and saw that all but 1 case was divers on air. In 2006, I started supplying nitrox at no additional charge. It doesn't cost me anything to make except a little diesel fuel, so I thought why not. I can't tell you what my bends rate is today, because we haven't had any cases since 2006. We have over 98% of our customers using nitrox. I offer a free nitrox experience to any customer on the boat. They get the entire class at no charge, but do not receive a certification at the end of the experience. I still get 2 or 3 folks a year that have nitrox cards but insist on using air, but they are rare. For liveaboard diving, nitrox is the only way to go, and should be mandatory for many repetitive dives per day.

I might suggest that this is because it is simply harder for people to reach the NDL's on nitrox as opposed to air...

 

[mike_s]

In 2006, I started supplying nitrox at no additional charge. [snip] For liveaboard diving, nitrox is the only way to go, and should be mandatory for many repetitive dives per day.

I don't see why the rest of Liveaboards don't do the same thing.


I guess it's a shell game with the numbers. meaning they charge less for the trip and then charge $150 surcharge for Nitrox, $100 surcharge for fuel, port fees, and other stuff they can add on. The lower initial price makes their trip look better than another competing liveaboard I guess.

Either that or they charge $150/customer/week so they can "recoup" the cost of their membrane system.

Or they simply make it a profit center.

 

[Wookie]

I might suggest that this is because it is simply harder for people to reach the NDL's on nitrox as opposed to air...

You are certainly absolutely right. And as far as the training comment goes above, yes, I expect that air divers are less trained than nitrox divers. In fact, by definition, air divers have received less training than nitrox divers.

You would be shocked and dismayed how many divers return to the boat with a beeping computer. We're not talking 1 or 2 % here, we're talking as much as 5% regularly, 10% on some trips. We've had to ad a section to our safety briefing that tells the diver that if their computer is beeping on decent, surface and figure it out. If their computer is beeping on ascent, slow down, stop at 15 feet, and figure out why. Then they get pissed when they get set out because they bent their computer. I'm supposed to be a charter operator, not a Open Water instructor.

 

[Wookie]

I guess it's a shell game with the numbers. meaning they charge less for the trip and then charge $150 surcharge for Nitrox, $100 surcharge for fuel, port fees, and other stuff they can add on. The lower initial price makes their trip look better than another competing liveaboard I guess.

My main competitor in Texas charges about $100 less per trip (a little more on longer trips) than I do. I include free nitrox, free soft drinks and beer/wine, and carry 9 fewer folks on the exact same sized boat. We go to the same place, and offer essentially the same trip. Because they advertise their trip for $100 less, they smoke me in bookings. Dive shops that offer a $79 open water class and then charge for books, pool time, open water fees, and required minimum equipment will always get more folks signing up for open water class than the shop that tells them up front that it's going to cost between $400 and $600 to learn to dive. - BUT - That's not the customer I'm marketing to. I want the competent diver. The one who wants a bottom line price. The one who sees the value of nitrox. The one who wants exceptional diving at a good price. The one who might take advantage of the included wine at dinner, or might not, but in either case, it won't effect the outcome of their trip. I want the diver who no longer cares for a brisket dinner. I get the customer I want.

 

[flots am]

I might suggest that this is because it is simply harder for people to reach the NDL's on nitrox as opposed to air...

You say that like it's a bad thing???

If you're handing out 80's it's harder to get bent when using Nitrox instead of air.

flots.

 

[Mossman]

You would be shocked and dismayed how many divers return to the boat with a beeping computer. We're not talking 1 or 2 % here, we're talking as much as 5% regularly, 10% on some trips.

I want the competent diver. [snip]. . . I get the customer I want.

Uh, you do?

 

[xlow]

I would love to have an opportunity to dive with Nekton again. I dove probably the least attractive Northwestern Bahamas trip but I really loved it. 25 dives in 5 days - just can't go wrong with that. The price was really affordable (it was when oil was almost $120 a barrel) Admiral Nelson (I have his email if someone is interested) with his great crew (2xJessie; Tom M. (great diver and superb story teller, very experienced and intelligent person); and many others). Billy as a chef made the trip unforgettable and he served not only gourmet food but also knew how to present it on the plate. Literally I was positively shocked. Bottom line I think the crew and food makes all the difference. I don't care about internet, TV, radio, dvd, wii, ps3, etc. hot water in the shower and all other junk that some people see as a necessity. Maybe it's only me but when I dive - I DO have EVERYTHING I need and want. All other things don't matter to me. So good luck sir. I hope you could find Billy and hire him as a chef. Complete boat everytime GUARANTEED. Good luck.