Negative entry vs Using a downline

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Doing a hot drop around here in summer is almost a guarantee that you will not find what you are looking for. And secondarily in many locations there is absolutely no way you can predict where a diver will end up if you do a hot drop. The currents are so unpredictable that a second or two difference in entry can place you hundreds of yards away from a diver dropped at exactly the same location.

We did one dive off Quadra Island with a group of 10 divers. We all jumped in at exactly the same location and were together for the first 2 minutes. Then currents took all 5 pairs in completely different directions. The pair I was in ended up surfacing because we ended up on a mud plain with nothing to see. We dropped again at the original site and ended up having a great dive. Other pairs were more than half a mile away. Why dive at that particular site??? Because the high currents generate some spectacular scenery.

PS both current dives were at slack - diving these sites at any other time is not recommended :)

Sounds like a dive we did at Row & Be Damned ... only time I've ever hung onto bull kelp to keep from getting blown to the surface during a safety stop.

On our first dive this past Monday ... Rogers Reef near Gabriola Island ... six buddy teams went with the flow ... half of them came up on the north side of the reef, half came up on the south side. It was entirely dependent on how deep they went ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
on many of my dives, I see a lot more wildlife swimming on my back than face down snorkeling.
Eagles, herons, and sometimes the head of a curious sea lion or harbor seal.

Also, I can be sure that my teammates are able to hear me complain about how much I hate surface swimming :)
I used to think I did a lot of surface swimming ... then I went down to SoCal to dive with some internet buddies who live down there. They not only typically have longer swims, but it's often through pounding surf and big waves. They think we PNW divers are a bunch of weenies because our surface swims are usually in calm conditions ... our idea of waves around here is when the ferry goes by ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Eagles, herons, and sometimes the head of a curious sea lion or harbor seal.


I used to think I did a lot of surface swimming ... then I went down to SoCal to dive with some internet buddies who live down there. They not only typically have longer swims, but it's often through pounding surf and big waves. They think we PNW divers are a bunch of weenies because our surface swims are usually in calm conditions ... our idea of waves around here is when the ferry goes by ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I did a dive off of Lummi Island and after the dive, some people on shore commented that "it must have been cool diving with all of those seals", to which we replied (in stereo), "what seals?"
 
this thread has taught me people will dive in the craziest places. doesn't sound fun at all.
myself included...

It's only crazy if you're not used to it ... divers tend to take whatever they can get for a chance to blow some bubbles. I know lots of local divers who wouldn't ever be talked into diving inside a cave ... for them it doesn't sound fun at all ... put those same divers in 45 degree water in a stiff current and six feet of vis in the Tacoma Narrows and they come up with huge grins on their face ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added April 11th, 2014 at 12:08 PM ----------

I did a dive off of Lummi Island and after the dive, some people on shore commented that "it must have been cool diving with all of those seals", to which we replied (in stereo), "what seals?"

Diving with seals is a lot of fun for about five minutes ... then you just wish they'd go bother somebody else. They're like big, silt-producing puppies ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Why on earth would anyone go down a line in significant current? Unless we are on a drift dive, we dive at slack tide. The current is sometimes still running slightly on descent, but no one is hanging on the shot line like a flag in the wind on descent. Normally it's a thumb and middle finger forming an 'o' around the line, which is followed down to the wreck. If the wreck isn't permanently shotted (and most aren't, unless they're in a harbour or bay), once the last team hits the bottom, they send the shot line back up to be recovered by the boat crew. At the end of the dive, pop your blob and it's a green water ascent to the surface where the boat will recover you.

Diving wrecks in the St Lawrence, you are generally diving current, sometimes significant, and are close to busy shipping channels. You don't want to end up in the shipping channel.

Yes, there are real differences in dive locations and associated safety considerations. I don't understand why so many seem to have difficulty acknowledging this.

---------- Post added April 11th, 2014 at 07:17 PM ----------

But my question is why not wait until slack? why do the dive when the current is still running? it is a genuine question. If conditions are tidal, doesn't it make sense to wait? I know there are places (such as Cozumel, apparently WPB as well), where the current is always running and pretty much everything is a drift.

Rivers tend not to have slack - maybe seasonal, but that's about it.
 
I would not want to retain team cohesion doing a negative entry in the low vis we encounter. If fortunate you may stay together but if one has an issue you can't decide to remain where you are, to ascend, or to drop and regroup on the bottom. And I have seen buddies (myself included) get separated between the time you drop and orient yourself in a downward position. Even if you discuss it it becomes a big PITA playing yo yo. Better to splash, regroup and ascend together. If that means a line so be it.
That doesn't mean one should not dive. Up here we have surface pea soup quite often but opening vis at depth. You just push past it.

I mentioned glass sponge biohermes before, which are becoming a popular dive up here. Some of these are like sea mounts and if you drift past doing a hot drop you won't just miss them, you'll miss the bottom and be sailing along in blue water until you finally admit you've blown it. Now you have to ascend 100-120', get picked up, re board and sit it out or re drop with less gas and more N loading than anticipated.

Undrwater,
Not including the DIY plywood backplates from Popular Mechanics in the 1950's, there were many commercially produced backplates from the late 50's through 60's. From the 60's to present plastic (ABS I believe) backplates were wide spread and many early jacket BC's had them. They are no different from the metal backplates being discussed here other than material. Almost all had a slot for a crotch strap which was/is useful for keeping the tank low on the back when diving a double hose regulator.

Picture2009-16.jpg
 
Undrwater,
Not including the DIY plywood backplates from Popular Mechanics in the 1950's, there were many commercially produced backplates from the late 50's through 60's. From the 60's to present plastic (ABS I believe) backplates were wide spread and many early jacket BC's had them. They are no different from the metal backplates being discussed here other than material. Almost all had a slot for a crotch strap which was/is useful for keeping the tank low on the back when diving a double hose regulator.

Yep, I have a couple of those as well. The plastic plate on the Dacor I referenced looks like it was inspired by the old backpack. It also had two unused holes that may have been intended for doubles, but they were not the standard distance apart.

So...to tie the two basic topics together...it sounds that hot drops in low visibility are decidedly NOT DIR? The probability of buddy loss seems as if it would preclude this type of dive.
 
Why on earth would anyone go down a line in significant current?.

Because you're diving in the St Lawrence River and the current is continuous. The wrecks are buoyed. (Though I do prefer to drift into ones that are not in the shipping lanes.)
 
Yep, I have a couple of those as well. The plastic plate on the Dacor I referenced looks like it was inspired by the old backpack. It also had two unused holes that may have been intended for doubles, but they were not the standard distance apart.

So...to tie the two basic topics together...it sounds that hot drops in low visibility are decidedly NOT DIR? The probability of buddy loss seems as if it would preclude this type of dive.
I would enjoy using that tank , harness and double hose reg..the fins I could live with :).....the mae west nonsense BC--I used those a few times in the 70's and hated them---back then the obvious choice was NOT to use one....a popular adage of the time was " Anyone who needs a BC deserves to drown".... They were uncomfortable and high drag, on a kit that was ultra simple, comfortable and slick.....For about the next 10 years, I would not use a BC, and NEVER regretted not having one. The big difference in my diving, was that in those days, we did not try to skim the bottom---we were not really aware of trim the way we are today--although we would also snorkel, so we had a sense about efficient weighting and propulsion....but not nearly the horizontal perfection that has become an objective today....And...if it was cold enough to need a thick wetsuit, there was always the game of deciding how deep you would go, and how much buoyancy change you were willing to play with...I never experienced TOO HEAVY on the bottom, but do remember plenty of dives where the final 20 feet to surface was very buoyant--which was fine, as in those days, there was no safety stop....and we did not need to go in neutral --we could jump in LIGHT or quite positive, KNOWING that we just had to power down about 30 feet and we would be close to neutral--and then would not be heavy near the bottom.....And diving with NO Wetsuit was a huge plus for this balancing game, in summer, with no buoyancy shift. We would try to do this most of the time, and try to make summer THE time to dive....When Lycra suits came out, they were immediately chosen for skin protection and no buoyant shift.


Now as to the DIR in low vis.....if the vis is even 3 feet, it is still easy to see your buddy--but does require more peripheral awareness than 50 or 100 foot vis....it required a buddy team to have a connection so that they both keep each other in view at all time....this IS part of DIR....this IS part of just being a good buddy--which certainly does not require DIR--some divers have no problem staying in contact in the buddy team scenario....if you train for this in low vis and near blackout, you are all the better for it....the descent, except for the first 2 seconds on hitting the water--where you do have to pull together and get the instant eye contact after the bubbles pass, is no different than swimming horizontally...If the vis is only 2 or 3 feet..you might need to jump in....stay at the surface for 2 seconds to find your buddy ( stay negative but swim to stay afloat), then on eye contact, begin falling and going vertical head down.

Falling vertical head down is how a freediver drops to 60 or 100 feet....you would not see one of these guys falling horizontal...it is too slow and wastes their bottom time :)

And...I shoot wide angle....For me to do a dive with 10 foot vis or lower, I need to be looking for something important---I have done plenty of dives like this, and except for exploration dives on Pinacles of St Lucie and Fort Pierce, on stuff no diver had ever seen before, I don't usually appreciate the experience so much....and in this thread, the idea was negative entrys at places a dive tourist would WANT to go, as a dream dive destination....that should exclude the 2 and 3 foot vis scenarios:)


And the but.....If there is low current, or no current, I have no problem going down next to a line....I will keep it in sight, and just fall down negative....with light current, I might even do the O thing with my fingers, and let the line slip through, but also aid in staying by the line against the slight current pull....again, in the 80's and 90's, use of lines was big, and obviously my buddies and I did a lot of diving like that...And if the boat is anchored, and the current is light enough so that you are not going to be spun like a fishing lure, I am fine with going up on the line....this is way easier than fighting down in a current.....
I do remember one horror story....about ten of us dud the HydroAtlantic back around 1995 ( prior to DIR for ocean)..a baby tech dive, but one of the prettiest wrecks off of Florida...it sits in about 165 or so....and the boat used a monster red ball with a line anchored to the bottom--current began as big...it was a hard, hand over hand pull down, but my buddy and I got down without any real air blowing....We all did the dive, and formed together, and then began going up the line....the current had doubled in speed--now closer to 4 or 5 mph in the fastest water in the top 50 feet....By the time I was at the 20 foot stop, I was the only one that had not been blown off the line....this was no drift dive, so I planned on being the one that got picked up right away after the deco, and then to help find the others....so when I finished my deco stop at 20 feet, and got up to the surface -holding on tightly to the rope on the ball....there was no boat in sight....for a very long direction....the boat had realized everyone was off the line and pulled anchor and gone after them....I looked on..annoyed....and then here comes this boat right at me...closer and closer, I'm thinking awesome, these guys will give me a ride maybe....and then I see they are fishing, and they pass me by about ten feet, and a fisherman casts out a line right behind me, that then comes at me as the boat was trolling, and the hook actually catches my fin....I get really p*ssed, and pull my double barrel 56 inch Ultimate Speargun up, cock it, and point it at them....this thing looks like a monstrous Nato Assault rifle :)
The fisherman get the message, and move off...and 15 minutes later, I see my boat coming to get me.
 
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