Need some reassurance....or not...?? AOW

[tenover]

"

But I offer an alternative ... a four-dive skills workshop that is conducted entirely at 20-30 feet, where we work on solidifying basic ​

OW

skills such as buoyancy control, ascents and descents, fin kicks, air shares, and whatever other skills the student is feeling less than confident about. I've done eight of these workshops ... one-on-one ... over the past two months alone, and have two ongoing at this time. I charge $200 for the workshop, and without exception the students taking them have told me it was money very well spent."

Now THAT is exactly what I'm looking for!
Oh, and I think my "EXTREMELY nervous" comment maybe was the wrong thing to say....My OW skills are fine, I do not have any problems with them at all, and I actually practice them in every dive I've since done in pools. Regardless, I'm cancelling my AOW class and am going to concentrate on getting a bunch of 20'-40' dives in during the next few months/summer here in San Diego.​

 

[Karibelle]

Oh, I do ... several very similar to the OP in this thread, in fact. And in almost half of those cases, I recommended to the student that they not seek an AOW at this point in time because of the requirement for a deep dive.

But I offer an alternative ... a four-dive skills workshop that is conducted entirely at 20-30 feet, where we work on solidifying basic OW skills such as buoyancy control, ascents and descents, fin kicks, air shares, and whatever other skills the student is feeling less than confident about. I've done eight of these workshops ... one-on-one ... over the past two months alone, and have two ongoing at this time. I charge $200 for the workshop, and without exception the students taking them have told me it was money very well spent.

I'm surprised that more instructors aren't offering something like this ... there's clearly a market for it, and it offers a very nice bridge between OW and AOW that gets students more confident and comfortable before taking them on the more challenging dives that AOW is supposed to introduce them to.

I also tend to do most of my fun diving with former students ... so it's in my best interest to make sure they're well-trained and reliable dive buddies ...

... Bob (Grateful Dive)

And after that are they more prepared for AOW? I would think so. Would you do the "deep" dive with these students immediately following this skills workshop? If you would, how would this be different from doing the deep dive as the last dive in AOW? (I'm unfamiliar with the NAUI AOW program, so my question comes from a PADI perspective).

I often encourage my OW students to move on and do a PPB course as that "bridge" you are talking about. Accomplishes that same goal to my mind.

thanks for the discussion.
kari

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

And after that are they more prepared for AOW?

In some cases, not necessarily ... I encourage them to go get some dives outside of class before AOW. My reasons are two-fold. First off, classes are by their nature an artificial environment ... often more about achieving a specific goal than actually diving. I think that just going diving without the constraints of a class offers some significant advantages that the diver simply won't get by going on to another class. And secondly, my AOW isn't typical ... it's designed specifically to address the needs of the local diver, and to create someone who afterward is completely self-sufficient in the kinds of conditions they can find themselves diving in here. As much as I like teaching for NAUI, I find their Advanced Scuba Diver manual pretty lame ... well, except for the Search and Recovery section which I think is pretty well done. Because I don't think it sufficiently addresses the needs of my students, I wrote my own material ... a handbook that goes in-depth on dive planning, gas management, buddy skills, buoyancy and trim, navigation skills, deep diving considerations, and limited vis techniques. We cover all of this material in class before doing any dives. Then there are six specific dives ... each with its own skills objectives, and each building on the skills learned in prior dives. The deep dive is #4 in the progression ... and prior to that dive the student has to work off a dive plan to calculate how much gas they'll expect to use for the dive. When they've learned enough to be confident in their buoyancy control, their dive planning, their buddy skills (including using lights for communication), and their air management ... then they're ready for a deep dive.

Deep diving is as much about having the confidence and ability to resolve problems underwater as it is about basic skills ... those are all variable in terms of how much in-water time is needed for a given student, but sufficient time must be given to develop that confidence and ability, as well as the skills, before I'll take a student deep. I'm a big believer in the value of developing that skill and confidence in shallow water before applying it on a deep dive. I want them to have the mental "bandwidth" to be able to resolve problems at depth. Their "narcosis test" is an OOA drill that allows me to gauge how well they've learned how to respond to an emergency ... and in order to perform such a test safely they must have first demonstrated a proficiency at shallower depths that leaves both them and me confident in their ability to handle it at deeper depths. Doing these skills over and over in the shallows first gives them confidence in their ability to do them at any time, in any conditions they're likely to find themselves facing.

By the time they're done with the Advanced class, they're prepared to hop on a dive charter and go do pretty much any recreational dive in Puget Sound ... very few divers would be able to do that without some in-water time outside of class ... even with the "bridge" of a workshop or specialty class between OW and AOW. I guess ... from my perspective ... it boils down to the environment I teach in ... and the fact that the majority of my students go on to become very active local divers ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Karibelle]

Bob, you had shared a file with me an eon ago. Would it have been the handbook you mention above?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob, you had shared a file with me an eon ago. Would it have been the handbook you mention above?

I suspect so ... or part of it ... it's 62 pages long ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[coldwatercanada]

I hate the name advanced open water diver. The course is called that becuase it "advances" your skills but it doesnt really make you an advanced diver IMO

---------- Post added May 2nd, 2012 at 12:40 PM ----------

is it a PADI AOW i missed that part? If its a PADI AOW Id recomond taking it before you jump on any specialities. You get 5 single speciality dives out of the AOW but no specific specialities. But then u can use the skills you've learned in that class towards your speciality classes!

 

[DivemasterDennis]

I have alot of AOW students who come straight from thier open water certification, and i have AOW students with well over 100 dives. Everyone has an opinion on when the aow should be taken, including me. No one view is right, but based upon years and years of interacting with hundreds of AOW students, I think that the class is most beneficial to divers who have had 10 or more real dives following their initial certification, and I prefer those with 20 or more dives. Just something to consider as you decide when to take the course. By the way, an advance certification is not necessary for night dives, or for that matter, wreck dives. Night dives are a great time, and I started doing them on my first trip after certification. I was with others who had done them. I would recommend a wreck diving specialty before doing any wreck penetration, and would suggest that be coupled with not only and AOW course but also a lot of dive experience and skills mastery BEFORE doing serious wreck diving.
DivemasterDennis

 

[Rooster In Ohio]

IMO you are not ready. Pools and cages do little to develop you basic skills.

AOW is not remedial OW, it is taking to you the next level however thin in content.

It's irrational to think you can have a meaningful experience diving in the dark when you have barely dove in the light. If the far side of 50 feet has you spooked why not make OW dives until you are comfortable with depth approaching 50 feet, then it will seem like logical next step.

The instructors support is not surprise, he knows he can bring you home alive and if he does not get the job someone else will sign you up.

Go make some appropriate dives with peers or more experienced local divers, Reevaluate when you have a few dozen true dives under your belt.

Pete

Well I'm just a noob, but being a noob I clearly remember taking AOW and no additional dives afer OW were required (experiences may vary). My reasons for taking it were not for remedial OW or because I expected to learn alot - it was simply to get the card as AOW seems to be required for a lot of not otherwise advanced dive trips. All that being said, I don't think it is "irrational" to think the OP can have a meaningful experience diving in the dark after just 5-10 dives - I thought it was fantastic! (note: night diving is not longer a requirement for PADI AOW but I paid extra to add night dives and get that checked off, both because I thought it made sense for my first night dive to be under supervision and because I wanted to take some night dives). Personally, I enjoyed all of the dives during AOW but didn't really learn much and nothing was overly taxing or a big deal (the biggest struggle was figuring out a new computer and getting into a deep stop/no deep stop discussion with another diver during the SI).

Another reason for the OP to take AOW now is the PMP/PPMP issue. Practice does not make perfect - perfect practice makes perfect. It sounds like the OP is not confident in his skills - if that is the case, it doesn't make sense for him to practice imperfectly - he should practice perfectly (through instruction). One poster suggested taking OW again, but based on my experience AOW was pretty much OW with additional task load (and not much, at that).

So, if AOW will give the OP confidence, if only from being able to say he slayed the dragon and therefore is willing to do it again, and supervised practice will improve his diving, I say cut the guy (and the instructor) some slack and let him go take AOW for what it is.

R/S,

db