Need some reassurance....or not...?? AOW

[Karibelle]

i agree that everyone is different
my original post was expressing a genuine interest in finding out people's motivation to take an advanced course so soon after the basic, even more so when they obviously have some worries already

there is nothing wrong with recognizing your limitations and seeking further training with an instructor, but if it were me i would seek the services of that instructor out in real dives not yet another course in the pool

that is exactly what the AOW course is. Real dives. Not pool work. Real dives in areas that interest you specifically. N

nope, no AOW yet because i don't feel i have yet mastered what i have learned in my OW to "burden" myself with advanced skills
i may never do it because i don't dive often enough to get to the level that i feel an advanced course will benefit me
but never say never, things may change in the future

burdening yourself with advanced skills - again, not what the AOW is about. Perhaps you could work on honing your buoyancy skills learned in OW by doing the PPB adventure dive. work on hovering in some different positions, play some buoyancy games. Get some experience going a little deeper and understanding how that is going to affect you, what things you need to pay more attention to. Get that wonderful feeling of accomplishment by nailing your square during the navigation dive and realizing that yes, you do in fact know how to get from a to b and back again.

since you're noting the importance of "personal opinion," mine is that you also are a great candidate for AOW.

As you say, we are all free to follow whatever path we choose, so I wish you well on yours.

kari

---------- Post added May 1st, 2012 at 08:47 PM ----------

Before receiving your OW card, you should have been comfortable enough that the thought of going diving with just a buddy was exciting, not scary.

flots.

I don't know about this. "Not being nervous" is not a performance requirement. In my logbook, there is an entry that says something along the lines of "first dive where I didn't have that OH MY GOD feeling when I entered the water."

There's nothing wrong with being new, and there is nothing wrong with being nervous. It is what one does next that is important.

kari

 

[TSandM]

I totally hear the idea of coming out of OW and not being very confident, and wanting to spend some dives with an instructor to keep developing skills while feeling somewhat supervised and a little reassured.

The problem with AOW is that it DOES involve the deep dive, which people who are taking the class for the above reasons probably really shouldn't do.

But you don't have to do AOW. You can do specialties. You can sign up for a nav class -- those dives are typically shallow, but involve some task loading and working on skills that are extremely useful for SoCal divers, who dive off anchored charter boats. You can do the PPB specialty, which is great for people who are facing challenges with buoyancy control. AOW is not a prerequisite for either of those, or even other specialty classes you can take to develop your diving. You don't have to do a night dive or a deep dive until you feel ready to do so.

 

[mathauck0814]

I'm not sure that it's productive to question the quality of the OP's open water course at this point. Rather, the point being to pick the best path forward. You say that you are interested in diving at night and on wrecks. That's great - those are tangible goals that you can pursue. Neither of those directly require you to do the AOW course. AOW is a little bit like "Discover [other] SCUBA for Certified Divers" in that you do five "try" dives in new conditions in the hopes that one or more will pique your interest and drive you to sign up (e.g., spend more money) for more PADI specialty courses.

There are SO MANY private dive instructors in our area (I'm assuming you're still in Point Loma, as your profile states) who could take you out and do the dives that you want to do and provide you with the training that you're looking for without putting you in the PADI workstream of potentially relevant subject matter.

If you WANT the AOW card, that's one thing. If you want to dive LJS at night or dive on the Yukon & Ruby-E, that's another. Ping me if you don't know any local instructors and I can definitely steer you in the direction of some local folks who would be happy to work with you to tailor your training to something more specifically relevant to the diving you want to do.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hmmm ... if the OP were contacting me to ask about AOW, my response would be that you're not ready for the class. Oh, you can certainly take the class ... but how much will you get out of it, really, if you haven't even gotten comfortable yet with what you were supposed to have learned in the last one?

If what you're really looking for is more experience in controlled conditions, or under the supervision of a dive leader, then taking something like a Peak Performance Buoyancy class or just hiring a local DM to take you diving would be a better ... and less expensive ... option.

Way too many people get sold an AOW as "five more dives with an instructor" ... that's the wrong reason to take the class, and a great way to set yourself up for a disappointing experience. And, as TSandM indicates, it's also a great way to build up a false sense of confidence that ... once you get the card ... you're ready for deeper diving. All too often, you won't be.

I tell my students that when they've gained full control and confidence in the skills they learned in their last class, then it's time to consider taking the next one. That way they have the ability and mental bandwidth to get something out of it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ajtoady]

When I did my AOW course it was shortly after my OW course. Besides the classroom learning,(knowledge is always a plus in my book), It gave me the opportunity to do in my case, eight more open water dives with a little supervision and counseling and help implement good diving practices. The fact that I was able to use the shop equipment and air for these dives at no added cost was a definite plus. Yes I have heard the, Put Another Dollar In, routine. Call it what you want I learned some valuable info that I continue to use. It has been said before and I will reinforce it, it depends a lot on your instructors. I am however not a tourist diver. I try to dive at least once a week year round, wetsuit, drysuit, under the ice, it don't matter. This is however just my opinion and not stated to start any fights.

 

[flots am]

I don't know about this. "Not being nervous" is not a performance requirement.

"EXTREMELY nervous" rates more pool time, not a recommendation for AOW.

"EXTREMELY nervous" is also only a small additional problem away from the student bolting for the surface, and maybe me having to call 911 and fill out an incident report.

Possibly even more importantly, good skills and comfort in the water is the difference between another happy diver, and an ad for "slightly used SCUBA gear" on eBay. Telling someone they "passed" their open water class when they don't feel confident is a disservice to the student.

flots

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

AOW is certainly not a place for someone who is "EXTREMELY nervous" ... in particular because AOW involves a deep dive, and deep is definitely the wrong place for someone to go if they describe themselves in that fashion. Depth tends to act as a magnifier for underwater stress, due to narcosis, increased pressure (both kinds), and the increased risk that a student will get an overpowering urge to seek the "safety" of the surface at the wrong time.

Reassurances from instructors are not always to be taken as in the best interest of the student. However well intentioned, such reassurances can sometimes play a pivotal role in accidents involving new divers. New divers lack the context for recognizing when a dive is inappropriate, and frequently rely on the judgment of a dive leader to tell them what to do. A dive that seems suitable or appropriate to an instructor or divemaster may present problems that seem insurmountable from the perspective of the trusting student ... and being faced with a problem that you don't see a solution to is the surest path to panic.

The requirement for a deep dive in AOW is my biggest objection to allowing ... much less actively marketing ... AOW straight out of OW. At best it gives a student a false sense of security about their ability to handle deeper dives safely. At worst it induces even more stress at a time when the source of the stress ... which is usually a student struggling with basic skills ... hasn't yet been properly addressed. It leaves a student too heavily dependent on the judgment and supervision of someone else ... something which we dive professionals should be striving to avoid in those we teach.

I would far rather see the new diver solidifying their basic skills at shallower depths ... and leaving the deeper dives for after they've developed some comfort and confidence in the skills they learned in OW.

Underwater, stress is not your friend. The deeper you go, the less friendly it becomes. On a deep dive, it can become dangerous. You don't want to let it get to that point.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[endurodog]

This bashing of the OW course the OP took because he is nervous or extremely nervous is a bit of jumping to conclusions. Many people are just that way and the OP said he is "paranoid by nature". So is the issue the instruction he recieved or just the persons natural state? Some jumping to conclusions IMHO. Finding out why the OP really is in that state would help develop a course of action for him, different instructor, dives to develop confidence, buddying with a DM, ect.

However, no matter the reason, the OP is nervous to a point that I think more dives to develop more confidence so that he can get more out of AOW course would be a good idea. Maybe the speciality courses others have mentioned for those skills he wants to improve on minus the deep until he is ready.

Remember do whats fun and if deep isn't your thing, so be it. Enjoy!

 

[Karibelle]

To each his own. I certainly respect the opinions of both flots am and nwgrateful diver. doesn't mean I'm going to shy away from nervous divers - as I said, there is nothing wrong (of course, that is just my opinion) with being nervous - it's all about what happens next. If I choose to mentor a new diver through their nervousness during an AOW class as opposed to sending them away to get more experience and be more comfortable before I'll consider them as a student, that is my choice.

And Bob, I'd be surprised if you don't have an example of a student of yours who did training with you beyond OW just so they could have the benefit of diving with you more. Someone whom you had deemed fit to certify that still saw a benefit in further instruction. Do you not?

kari

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

To each his own. I certainly respect the opinions of both flots am and nwgrateful diver. doesn't mean I'm going to shy away from nervous divers - as I said, there is nothing wrong (of course, that is just my opinion) with being nervous - it's all about what happens next. If I choose to mentor a new diver through their nervousness during an AOW class as opposed to sending them away to get more experience and be more comfortable before I'll consider them as a student, that is my choice.

And Bob, I'd be surprised if you don't have an example of a student of yours who did training with you beyond OW just so they could have the benefit of diving with you more. Someone whom you had deemed fit to certify that still saw a benefit in further instruction. Do you not?

kari

Oh, I do ... several very similar to the OP in this thread, in fact. And in almost half of those cases, I recommended to the student that they not seek an AOW at this point in time because of the requirement for a deep dive.

But I offer an alternative ... a four-dive skills workshop that is conducted entirely at 20-30 feet, where we work on solidifying basic OW skills such as buoyancy control, ascents and descents, fin kicks, air shares, and whatever other skills the student is feeling less than confident about. I've done eight of these workshops ... one-on-one ... over the past two months alone, and have two ongoing at this time. I charge $200 for the workshop, and without exception the students taking them have told me it was money very well spent.

I'm surprised that more instructors aren't offering something like this ... there's clearly a market for it, and it offers a very nice bridge between OW and AOW that gets students more confident and comfortable before taking them on the more challenging dives that AOW is supposed to introduce them to.

I also tend to do most of my fun diving with former students ... so it's in my best interest to make sure they're well-trained and reliable dive buddies ...

... Bob (Grateful Dive)