need recommendations for Full Face Masks

[Marge33]

My husband and I are taking a course in Full Face Masks tomorrow. Our primary reason for buying a FFM is for the communication feature. We hunt Lionfish, and hand signals just don't do it sometimes.

The dive shop here on our island (Bonaire) only sells the Ocean Reef FFM's, but I've read some negative comments about them, although the posts are several years old. Deep Sea posted this in January 2011:

The Ocean Reef FFM is kind of new on the market and has some design flaws. You have a knob that is adjustable on the 2nd stage regulator. You adjust the flow of air and ease of breathing. However, go vertical and you adjust, go horizontal and you adjust. adjust, adjust, etc.

This is a concern since we often have to change our position in order to get a good shot at a Lionfish. Has this problem been corrected, or is this still a problem?

Although we'd prefer to buy something right away, if Ocean Reef is not as well suited as a different brand, we'll wait to purchase a FFM when we return to the U.S. in a few months.

Any advice or recommendations?

 

[KD8NPB]

The Ocean Reef is an italian-made Mestel gas mask. It is not originally designed for diving.

CO2 retention when using a full face mask is a concern.

The lowest CO2 retention on the market is the OTS Guardian... I believe is at 0.7 mbar? The Interspiro Divator is @ 1.4 mbar if I remember correctly.

I like the Guardian.

 

[anelson-OTS]

Of course I'd recommend the Guardian as well

If you are looking for the best underwater communications on the market, Ocean Technology Systems is the way to go. If you are looking for our recreational models, it is worth checking out our most popular, the Buddy Phone D2, in combination with the Guardian. It works off of a single 9 Volt Battery and can get 500 meters out of it (depending on conditions being dived) and runs for approx. 10 hours of dive time. You can see it here : Shop | Ocean Technology Systems

You can also see and hear what the Buddy Phone sounds like here on a recent video shot by Becky Kagan Schott. OTS Equipment In Action | Ocean Technology Systems

and our new training video for it, goes over features and how to navigate the voice menu (just uploaded today!) U/W Communications Training | Ocean Technology Systems

The Guardian has a very low CO2 washout, it is a self defogging mask, nothing to bite down on, double seal skirt (we fit better than 9 out of 10 people), and there is no adjustment knob you have to worry about. Also, our equalizing assembly is non-invasive and is a comfortable "V-Block" that sits below your nose and when adjusted properly, is very easy and comfortable to equalize with. It also comes standard with our Ambient Breathing Valve (opens up so you can breathe ambient air and not off your tank while at the surface), hose, mask bag, 2 year warranty and the first year of service is free on the mask.

We also have a bunch of Guardian training videos here : Full Face Mask Training Videos | Ocean Technology Systems

Also, on a separate note, if you or your husband is interested, we offer an online "Technician Course". It basically consists of a powerpoint presentation, you break down the mask to bare bones and put it back together, take the quiz and when you score 100% you can buy spare parts so that if something ever happens while you are out the boat or dive trip, you can repair it on your own. Some people are very interested in this so I thought I'd let you know.

Hope I didn't overload you I just wanted to give you some insight into the Guardian and communications. If you have any questions feel free to contact me here, PM, or my email : anelson@otscomm.com

The Guardian is all I dive and it really changes the way you dive. It takes a lot of the headaches out of it. You put it on your head and breathe through your mouth or nose!

V/R,


Andy Nelson
Sales & Training Representative
Underseas Systems International dba
Ocean Technology Systems
Phone: (714) 754-7848 Ext. 106
Mobile: (949) 705-7739
Ocean Technology Systems

 

[TotDoc]

I'm also going to recommend the Guardian. I use them at the Florida Aquarium, both for contaminated water work, and for open water projects. They are nothing short of amazing. One of my buddies at the aquarium has the ocean reef neptune, and he says it's not nearly as nice as the Guardian, but he still enjoys diving it for the price.

---------- Post added February 26th, 2014 at 09:59 PM ----------

Oh wow, just went to the reg classifieds and saw this - http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/classifieds-regulators/473741-ots-guardian-ffm.html

This person is selling a pair of OTS Guardians with Buddy Phone coms (1 pink mask, 1 blue) at a GREAT price. I would jump all over that deal if you are really looking to pick up a pair

 

[drrich2]

One feature I might not demand, but would at least consider, is whether a given FFM lets you use another person's octopus if you run out of air.

With some, you basically need to pull the thing off your head, and unless you carry a spare mask in your BCD pocket, you've likely blinded yourself for the most part doing so (hard to see underwater with no mask).

I've seen one discussed before that let you pull off the lower part so you could accept a buddy's octopus.

I haven't used a FFM. My wife & a friend of mine have dove an old AGA Interspiro. In a nut shell, from their experience, you can breathe through your nose, it doesn't fog, and you go through gas faster. Unless you're different from them.

Whatever you get, let us know how it turns out.

Richard.

 

[kwinter]

Unless you're diving a Kirby Morgan supermask with a spare pod, you should ALWAYS carry a spare half mask in a pocket.


Please pardon any typos. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DragonslayerAZ]

I love my guardian, in a head down position I can not tell any difference from the head up position. It breaths dry and without any extra effort. The no mask fog side benefit is also awesome on a dive. The parts availability in the states are a plus, and with the guardian everything is modular so if you crack or break anything it's not the end of the face mask. If you have a chance go dive the ocean reef, go in the head down position like you were looking under a rock and see what happens. I'm pretty sure your decision will be made up, barring that look at the ocean reef videos where it shows you having to detune the reg. so far as out of air emergencies or mask failure with any full face it takes practice and pool drills at a minimum to gain proficiency. With practice I can switch from full face, to octo and half mask, clear it, then back to my full face and clear that in a minute with my eyes closed. If you are determined to have an additional back up plan a pony can be plumed in with a gas switch block. The ocean reef has a port to plug in a second reg with adaptor. But after playing with it the quality didn't impress me at all.

Also as stated above always carry a spare half mask with a guardian, aga, or ocean reef. I carry my full sized cressi big eyes in a hollis mask pouch on my back plate setup.

 

[Marge33]

Thank you, all who responded. The Ocean Reef mask did not fit my little head. It only comes in two sizes, and the small was much too small and the large was too large. I also have trouble finding masks that fit properly. I've had dozens of masks, and only one was a good fit. Unfortunately, it is no longer made. So, most of my 2,000 plus dives have been done with leaky masks.

We only did one dive (skipped the second dive, which was to use communications) since the mask didn't fit. It leaked through the top and bottom, but even though I could feel the water enter the mask, I never saw any water. It just seemed to disappear. If I didn't have the air flow cut back to the minimum, which made breathing more difficult, the sides of the mask would flutter and free flow. Of course, this wouldn't be a problem with a proper fit.

I really liked not having a regulator in my mouth, and the field of vision was nice. However, aside from the poor fit, there were a couple of things we didn't like. We didn't like the free flow when we went head down, although that could be pretty much eliminated by twisting the knob to decrease air flow.

Our instructor told us that he thinks we'd get used to tweaking the air flow to eliminate free flow when head down, but I think that would be a nuisance, especially since we hunt lionfish. Many of the lionfish here on Bonaire have gotten pretty spooked from being shot at before, and will immediately disappear if they see or hear us approaching. The few seconds it would take to adjust the air flow would give the lionfish too much time to become spooked. Also, we spend the first 20 or 30 minutes down at the bottom of the reef (80 to 110 feet), and it seems like cutting the air flow clear back might make breathing too hard at that depth.

For some reason, my husband and I both had trouble equalizing. Not sure why, since the plugs seemed to fit properly.

I did check the link to OTS FFM that is for sale, but due to my problems with fit, I wouldn't want to purchase a FFM without being able to try it out. After checking the links that Andy provided, plus the positive recommendations from others, we will definitely try the OTS FFM. Guess we'll just have to visit some dive shops next time we're in the U.S. and use their pool to try the masks.

One question: does the OTS FFM come in various sizes?

 

[KD8NPB]

We didn't like the free flow when we went head down, although that could be pretty much eliminated by twisting the knob to decrease air flow.

For some reason, my husband and I both had trouble equalizing. Not sure why, since the plugs seemed to fit properly.

One question: does the OTS FFM come in various sizes?

I do not think the OTS Guardian or the Interspiro Divator have the freeflow problem like you experienced? At least I have not noticed a freeflow issue ever.

It helps to look up when you equalize, that way you're not pinching your sinus cavities shut. When you look up, you kinda stretch them out & open and it makes it easier to equalize.

The OTS Guardian has a double inner seal, made of silicone. It is estimated to fit greater than 90% of the population.

The Interspiro Divator has a single inner seal, made of silicone. It is estimate to fit 80-90% of the population.

I complete agree though, try one on for fitment first.

 

[anelson-OTS]

Our mask is only one size. We accomplish fitting such a large variety of faces due to the face that our mask has a double seal skirt.

For larger faces, your face will seal on the outer seal. For smaller faces, you will seal on the inner seal. I took a quick photo on my phone to show you what I mean.



Not sure why that photo turned sideways, this is the first time i've uploaded a photo. Anyway if you rotate your head (haha), you will also notice that our equalizing assembly is a little different.

We have a V-Block that can be moved up or down using various pad sizes and notches on the base block. We also have longer wire forms that can be replaced via those two outer screws you see, for smaller noses. I require a longer wire myself. You want to set your equalizing assembly to where the block is sitting about an 1/8th inch or 1/4 inch below your nose (comfortably enough to breathe through your nose, but still close) and when you are ready to equalize, you want to look up (as KD8NPB stated) to extend your sinus cavities, push in and up the front of the reg. If equalizing is difficult or you find you can't, it is typically because the nose block is too low and you require a longer wire (some women and more petite noses like mine). If you find you need one, I can ship one out free of charge.

Also, because our regulator is a side mounted reg, it becomes closer into your face and has a much smaller effect on breathing performance when looking up and down and doesn't require any fiddling with a tuning dial. Some people may notice going through more air with a full face mask when first getting used to it, but most people will tend to use less and less as you become more proficient. If you throw in communications and you may use more air because of talking with other dives or the boat. It's all dependent on the diving situation.

As Kwinter stated, you should keep a spare mask in your BCD or easy to access in an emergency situation. I keep mine in a pocket, easily accessible, in my BCD. In an emergency situation, you want to pull on the bottom two tabs of the mask, to pull the mask up and over your head, grab your octo, control your breathing, grab your extra mask, don and clear. Typically you will ascend to the surface at this point.

If you want to put your mask back on underwater, you do just the opposite. First, extend your mask straps fully for donning, take off your spare mask, take a few deep breaths, take out your octo (but close enough to grab if you need again) and first put the mask to your face, clear it by pressing the purge button, take a hesitant breath to make sure all the water is cleared out, then tighten mask straps while keeping your mask secured to your face with a spare hand. You can see a training video of that here : Full Face Mask Training Videos | Ocean Technology Systems - Video is called "Doffing and Donning your mask underwater"

If you don't want to take your mask off to switch air sources, we also offer a gas switch block manifold, that is used to switch between the two. You can see that here : Shop | Ocean Technology Systems

Although no training is required to use or purchase a full face mask, it is definitely recommended to go over some emergency drills in a controlled environment to practice doffing and donning prior to diving in the ocean/lakes/quarrys etc. As with any piece of SCUBA equipment it is definitely a must to be comfortable and familiar with your gear before you head out.

Feel free to ask any and all questions. I'm here to help!