need help with nikon/olympus decision

[ReyeR]

I agree with ssra30, enlarged to equivalent sizes, a 6MP DSLR image from a camera like the Nik. D-70 or Can. 300D will look far better than an 8MP image from a current prosumer camera like the C8080. Compare the noise from an ISO 64 prosumer image and one shot at ISO 200 using a DSLR and you will understand why. You can throw as much strobe light at it as you want, it'll make no difference - the fact is that, currently, the smaller sensor packed with more pixels exhibits a lot more noise, even at lower ISOs.

As far as MPs go, the number has to be quadrupled for obvious improvements to show up, so forget about the extra 2MP, especially when comparing between a prosumer vs a DSLR.

There are other factors like lens sharpness and resolving power, and algorithms used to interpolate the final image that need to be considered.

Shutterlag is not really relevant to strobe recycling and reviewing your picture. Shutterlag is about responsiveness of the camera - when you press the shutter release and when it actually takes a sharp, focussed picture. The Jawfish (or Mandarin fish mating at dusk) is a very good example of where shutterlag (or the lack of it) is paramount for capturing the shot. Typically, the shutterlag of a C8080 in low light is about 1.5-2 secs. You won't notice the difference while taking the picture of a slow moving slug, but you will find it harder, frustrating or even impossible when trying to capture one of the above.

Don't get me wrong, the Olympus Cx0x0 are great cameras, and if size and expense are a concern then by all means go for it. I also agree with Dave, a D-70 in a Nexus housing and Inon Z220 strobes make a very good package - probably one of the most compact DSLR setups you can get currently.

 

[f3nikon]

Are you describing shutter lag or write time? It seems like 3 seconds to have a pic taken after hitting the shutter button is quite a long time. I could see the write time not being an issue since the strobes need to recycle.

I'm somewhat curious as I haven't had my 8080 underwater yet. I know on sunny days the shutter lag is pretty much non-existant, low lighting it takes a bit longer. I'm curious if the focusing light on the DS 125 is enough light to make for a quick shutter response or if I'm going to have to chase/guestimate where fish are going to be like I do on my D-40.

later,

Thanks for the correction, that was write time and you are also correct on waiting for the recycle time on the strobes.

I have a modelling light on the wide angle strobes but not the macro strobe. I'll be using a home made modelling/video halogen to prevent the low light shooting. This is a bare blub setup so no hotspots and a almost pure white light color. The power source is a gel cel in an old Ikelite case, attached to the weight belt. I believe the entire setup cost me about $50 to make.

Dive Safe

 

[ssra30]

sign, I wish I am more handy with tools beside knife, fork and spoon. Over the weekend, I just bought a Fisheye halogen video light to use as my focus light, nice and compact and adjustable brightness and all. Even with dSLR, the 80-170mm macro lens can still use some help from focus light.

 

[f3nikon]

I agree with ssra30, enlarged to equivalent sizes, a 6MP DSLR image from a camera like the Nik. D-70 or Can. 300D will look far better than an 8MP image from a current prosumer camera like the C8080. Compare the noise from an ISO 64 prosumer image and one shot at ISO 200 using a DSLR and you will understand why. You can throw as much strobe light at it as you want, it'll make no difference - the fact is that, currently, the smaller sensor packed with more pixels exhibits a lot more noise, even at lower ISOs.

As far as MPs go, the number has to be quadrupled for obvious improvements to show up, so forget about the extra 2MP, especially when comparing between a prosumer vs a DSLR.

There are other factors like lens sharpness and resolving power, and algorithms used to interpolate the final image that need to be considered.

Shutterlag is not really relevant to strobe recycling and reviewing your picture. Shutterlag is about responsiveness of the camera - when you press the shutter release and when it actually takes a sharp, focussed picture. The Jawfish (or Mandarin fish mating at dusk) is a very good example of where shutterlag (or the lack of it) is paramount for capturing the shot. Typically, the shutterlag of a C8080 in low light is about 1.5-2 secs. You won't notice the difference while taking the picture of a slow moving slug, but you will find it harder, frustrating or even impossible when trying to capture one of the above.

Don't get me wrong, the Olympus Cx0x0 are great cameras, and if size and expense are a concern then by all means go for it. I also agree with Dave, a D-70 in a Nexus housing and Inon Z220 strobes make a very good package - probably one of the most compact DSLR setups you can get currently.

I also agree with ssra30, about the blow up pics from a D70 are "incredible" I have no reason doubt the poster's statement since he/she happens to own that camera .

I am not so sure that ssra30 had said "a 6MP DSLR image from a camera like the Nik. D-70 or Can. 300D will look far better than an 8MP image from a current prosumer camera like the C8080" or is this just your opinion? Maybe you can produce some side by side comparisons of the 8080 blow ups verses the D70.

These sites should help:

http://www.wetpixel.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t6348.html

http://olympus-imaging.jp/lineup/digicamera/c8080wz/sample/

http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/cpg_product_lobbypage.asp?l=1&p=16&bc=2&product=961

Sony also makes the CCD sensors for the Nikon and Olympus cameras. The 8080 has a larger CCD sensor than the 5050 ( I didnt say the same as the D70). 8080's lowest ISO is 50 and the 5050 is 64, you would'nt be substituting the 8080 for the 5050? The big jump are Sony's new line of "CMOS"sensors in Nikon's D2X.

This site may help you understand the noise issues:

http://www.geocities.com/urthworm1/

Because a low ISO, correct exposure via strobes, aperture, shutter can keep the noise to a minumin.

I am not trying to sell the 8080 or to put down the D70, it just not make "cents" in my case to get into a D70 UW system while waitng to afford a D2X or until Nikon makes a DSLR with an actionfinder.

Dive Safe

 

[f3nikon]

sign, I wish I am more handy with tools beside knife, fork and spoon. Over the weekend, I just bought a Fisheye halogen video light to use as my focus light, nice and compact and adjustable brightness and all. Even with dSLR, the 80-170mm macro lens can still use some help from focus light.

The lack of funds is what helps me.

Dive Safe

 

[ReyeR]

I am not so sure that ssra30 had said "a 6MP DSLR image from a camera like the Nik. D-70 or Can. 300D will look far better than an 8MP image from a current prosumer camera like the C8080" or is this just your opinion? Maybe you can produce some side by side comparisons of the 8080 blow ups verses the D70.
.
.
8080's lowest ISO is 50 and the 5050 is 64, you would'nt be substituting the 8080 for the 5050?

I think you are missing the point here. What I am trying do is re-iterate ssra30's comment that it's about pixel 'quality', not 'quantity'. Read and understand the point we are trying to make here, don't pick on meaningless numbers like "8080's lowest ISO is 50 and the 5050 is 64" and post links about noise tests.

I have already done this side-by-side comparison - the D70 print looked superior by far. Infact, prints from a 5MP Olympus E-1 DSLR was far superior to the C8080. It was one of the deciding factors that prevented me from changing from a C5050 to a C8080 and seriously look at an affordable DSLR instead.

I am not trying to put down the C8080 or sell the D-70 either. They both have their unique qualities and place as an underwater system.

 

[ReyeR]

My apologies to Island Hoppa. To return to your original question, IMO, the DS-125 will be very well suited for the C8080 and Ike housing. The DS-125 is fast and powerful and will match perfectly with Ike's TTL conversion circuitary. If you donot want TTL then opt for a manual controller. The 'Smart' charger is highly recommended - apart from being very quick, it will also maintain the batteries and prevent overcharging. Also, Ike's after-sales service is legendary.
The only drawback is the weight of the batteries which makes the DS-125 a beast to carry.

HTH

 

[f3nikon]

I think you are missing the point here. What I am trying do is re-iterate ssra30's comment that it's about pixel 'quality', not 'quantity'. Read and understand the point we are trying to make here, don't pick on meaningless numbers like "8080's lowest ISO is 50 and the 5050 is 64" and post links about noise tests.

I have already done this side-by-side comparison - the D70 print looked superior by far. Infact, prints from a 5MP Olympus E-1 DSLR was far superior to the C8080. It was one of the deciding factors that prevented me from changing from a C5050 to a C8080 and seriously look at an affordable DSLR instead.

I am not trying to put down the C8080 or sell the D-70 either. They both have their unique qualities and place as an underwater system.

You won’t happen to work for Newsweek Magazine, would you? What is with this "we" stuff?

The author from the wetpixel article, on noise comparisons did the actual test for noise, did you?

 

[ReyeR]

The author from the wetpixel article, on noise comparisons did the actual test for noise, did you?

I read and understood the purpose of his test - did you?

Peter's noise test wasn't a comparison between a C5050 and a D70, as summarised by his recommendation: "Use the lowest ISO settings for both cameras unless you have specific reasons for increasing the ISO. And if you must increase ISO, try to limit it to no more than 100 for the C-5050 and 400 for the D70". Read and understand it - he has made a recommedation for individual cameras, not compared the two. The discussion here is about different noise characteristics exhibited between a prosumer camera and DSLR and their effects on the image captured, in case you have forgotten.

You won’t happen to work for Newsweek Magazine, would you? What is with this "we" stuff?

I was going to ask you myself if you worked for press? You seem to have the knack of picking on words and phrases and presenting them in an out-of-context manner, instead of sticking to the point and presenting facts relevant to the discussion.

 

[ssra30]

CCD/CMOS quality is only one aspect of the overall quality of the camera. Noise level is only one aspect of CCD/CMOS quality. There are so many other variables that will make one camera better than another so I would not get too hang up on noise level and pixel counts only.

ReyeR, I thought by now you would already be a proud owner of Oly Evolt or something like that by now. If not, its not too late to move to Nikon camp