scubadivingsteve
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Sorry about your loss. FYI they are not referred to as oxygen tanks. Air tank or tank.
Need advice on whether to take legal action!
- Thread starter JadeNorth92
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fisheater
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Not true at all.
Most plaintiff's attorneys turn down most cases. It doesn't make sense to invest lots of money and time in cases that don't have merit, or at least appear to have merit.
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dumpsterDiver
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If there is no evidence that there was any problem with the scuba gear (and also the quality of the breathing gas) and the dive computer shows that the diver made a rapid ascent and he had a history of heart problems.....I would suspect that it would be hard to prove that some third party is responsible for a negative outcome. Sorry to hear this happened to your father, but this WILL happen again. Scuba diving is not completely safe and even the best dive outfitters will be bringing in deceased divers. It is the nature of the beast.
I'm sorry for your loss.
If you father had a heart condition and had completed a dive medical form (from any agency) then he would have been advised/required to see a specialist before continuing to dive. From what you've written it appears he 'over-looked' the specific heart and circulation questions.
That could yet come back and bite your family as his travel or dive insurance could now be invalid.
If you father had a heart condition and had completed a dive medical form (from any agency) then he would have been advised/required to see a specialist before continuing to dive. From what you've written it appears he 'over-looked' the specific heart and circulation questions.
That could yet come back and bite your family as his travel or dive insurance could now be invalid.
I'm sorry for your loss Jade. In such cases, the only suggestion that can be given is for you to retain legal council. The laws and guides of acceptable practice vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. I have acted as an Expert Witness in diving fatalities in a number of these.
In cases like this, the next of kin are often desperate to understand why the accident occurred. All too often, the result is the Diver himself (OOA, panic, etc.) or his level of fitness. At other times there is a problem with contaminated gas, or an equipment malfunction (for example). In many jurisdictions, the police undertake an investigation to rule-out foul play. Equipment is seized (gas content examined), witnesses interviewed and documentary evidence confiscated (diver's log). This would be a source of information for you.
In some jurisdictions (most), a Coroner's inquest is undertaken to identify the cause of death and the circumstances that led up to the situation. Again, you can make inquiries as to this, if you haven't done so already. Finally, you can bring this to the attention of the training Agency.
Negligence is generally defined as an act or omission (what someone does or fails to do) that results/contributes to injury or death. The person must have a duty to do so and their actions must be reasonable under the circumstances. Again, Council will assist you in understanding the best way of proceeding (or not) and in the establishment of a Standard of Care if this applies.
In cases like this, the next of kin are often desperate to understand why the accident occurred. All too often, the result is the Diver himself (OOA, panic, etc.) or his level of fitness. At other times there is a problem with contaminated gas, or an equipment malfunction (for example). In many jurisdictions, the police undertake an investigation to rule-out foul play. Equipment is seized (gas content examined), witnesses interviewed and documentary evidence confiscated (diver's log). This would be a source of information for you.
In some jurisdictions (most), a Coroner's inquest is undertaken to identify the cause of death and the circumstances that led up to the situation. Again, you can make inquiries as to this, if you haven't done so already. Finally, you can bring this to the attention of the training Agency.
Negligence is generally defined as an act or omission (what someone does or fails to do) that results/contributes to injury or death. The person must have a duty to do so and their actions must be reasonable under the circumstances. Again, Council will assist you in understanding the best way of proceeding (or not) and in the establishment of a Standard of Care if this applies.
JadeNorth,
I am very sorry about the death of your father.
Like others, I wonder about a heart condition as a possible cause of death.
I am a lawyer in the USA and have been involved with SCUBA accident matters.
I agree with DCBC. you need an Egyptian lawyer or, at minimum, an investigator who can navigate around Egyptian law. That would likely cost a not insignificant amount of money.
You really have to decide whether or no you want to invest in this matter.
I am very sorry about the death of your father.
Like others, I wonder about a heart condition as a possible cause of death.
I am a lawyer in the USA and have been involved with SCUBA accident matters.
I agree with DCBC. you need an Egyptian lawyer or, at minimum, an investigator who can navigate around Egyptian law. That would likely cost a not insignificant amount of money.
You really have to decide whether or no you want to invest in this matter.
Sounds to me like the most likely scenario is a heart attack and/or panic-induced drowning, where he spat the reg and breathed sea water.
Carbon monoxide poisoning has been brought up, but I find it unlikely that it would've been missed, the symptoms are quite distinct(like cherry red lips), it's not impossible, but doesn't really fit the circumstances(and if it did happen, only mild, and contributing to panic due to increased respiration rate and a feeling of being unable to breath, panic being the actual killer).
Likewise, compressions on drowning victims is the right thing to do, though they should make sure the airway is open(and may have done so, just not mentioned in the reporting). Indeed it's hammered in at any EFR course that you can never make a drowning victim worse by any attempted treatment you do, so DO IT, if you don't, they are dead, if you do, there is a chance, however small. To reiterate: THIS IS CORRECT TREATMENT. It seems that it is you that is lacking in first aid education.
If the following is true however:
Carbon monoxide poisoning has been brought up, but I find it unlikely that it would've been missed, the symptoms are quite distinct(like cherry red lips), it's not impossible, but doesn't really fit the circumstances(and if it did happen, only mild, and contributing to panic due to increased respiration rate and a feeling of being unable to breath, panic being the actual killer).
Likewise, compressions on drowning victims is the right thing to do, though they should make sure the airway is open(and may have done so, just not mentioned in the reporting). Indeed it's hammered in at any EFR course that you can never make a drowning victim worse by any attempted treatment you do, so DO IT, if you don't, they are dead, if you do, there is a chance, however small. To reiterate: THIS IS CORRECT TREATMENT. It seems that it is you that is lacking in first aid education.
If the following is true however:
Then that's enough warning flags for me to say they have something to hide, and you might be onto something. However that something is then most likely either equipment malfunction, or more likely, a failure of them to require a doctor's statement when he answered yes on the medical history for heart problems.
tamas970
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It would have helped a lot if the dive operators hadn't made the tank disappear! In a civilized country ALL gear is confiscated immediately and sent to detailed analysis. I just wonder, how many CO cases remain hidden because of retained evidence... Besides, it should be standard practice for the coroners to check COHb levels.
First of all, I am very sorry about your loss.
As living in Egypt and I occasionally dive (I do not work in the dive industry myself but I know how things are going) I need to highlight some points to you:
1- You need to tell us which dive operator he was using, some have bad reputation others are really good but anyway usually operators dealing with English or German divers have good operations (assuming he had booked in England through an agent) however can't guarantee the situation is he went as a walk-in customer to some operator while he was there.
2- Normally CPR and O2 tanks are on the boat, most of the crew are aware of CPR and the dive guide is a minimum of a PADI divemaster so he supposedly have the EFR training. May I ask about the nationality of the dive guide, was he Egyptian or of other nationality?
3- your father had minor heart problems, did he declare such problems? It used to be mandatory to fill a disclaimer and a medical questionnaire before diving that neither the dive operator or the dive master are to be held responsible for any accidents and that the diver is aware of the hazards of diving, it also asks too many questions about medical conditions (PADI standard) and in case a diver says YES about any condition he is not allowed to dive until he gets a clearance from a dive doctor. Saying that, what was the case with your father, did he fill one of these? did he claim any problems and still was allowed to dive?
still of course all the above has a probability about 100% for well reputed dive operator and the probability decreases with low standard/reputation operators.
4- After getting off water and reaching land, was he moved to a hospital or the hyperbaric chamber? you can contact both asking for info although I doubt that you can reach anything through this: Chamber of Diving and Water sports - Red Sea - Egypt:
Hope this helps.
Again my deepest condolences for you and the family.
As living in Egypt and I occasionally dive (I do not work in the dive industry myself but I know how things are going) I need to highlight some points to you:
1- You need to tell us which dive operator he was using, some have bad reputation others are really good but anyway usually operators dealing with English or German divers have good operations (assuming he had booked in England through an agent) however can't guarantee the situation is he went as a walk-in customer to some operator while he was there.
2- Normally CPR and O2 tanks are on the boat, most of the crew are aware of CPR and the dive guide is a minimum of a PADI divemaster so he supposedly have the EFR training. May I ask about the nationality of the dive guide, was he Egyptian or of other nationality?
3- your father had minor heart problems, did he declare such problems? It used to be mandatory to fill a disclaimer and a medical questionnaire before diving that neither the dive operator or the dive master are to be held responsible for any accidents and that the diver is aware of the hazards of diving, it also asks too many questions about medical conditions (PADI standard) and in case a diver says YES about any condition he is not allowed to dive until he gets a clearance from a dive doctor. Saying that, what was the case with your father, did he fill one of these? did he claim any problems and still was allowed to dive?
still of course all the above has a probability about 100% for well reputed dive operator and the probability decreases with low standard/reputation operators.
4- After getting off water and reaching land, was he moved to a hospital or the hyperbaric chamber? you can contact both asking for info although I doubt that you can reach anything through this: Chamber of Diving and Water sports - Red Sea - Egypt:
Hope this helps.
Again my deepest condolences for you and the family.
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