Need advice on how to handle possible O-ring failure at depth

[Juardis]

Finally did some ocean dives this past week. Each of our 11 dives presented new and interesting learning experiences. But I had to think about this particular one and want you more experienced people to weigh in.

We're at St. Lucia, 2nd dive of the day so limited to 40 ft max. This is my 7th ocean dive ever (12th overall). About 10 min into the dive I notice a steady stream of bubbles coming from my buddy's (wife) tank where the O-ring contacts the 1st stage regulator. I immediately asked her to check her pressure. She looked confused as to why I would ask that, but told me 2200 psi which is what I had. I then looked around at the other divers and noticed one other had bubbles coming from his tank/regulator. Not knowing any better, I assumed this might be a frequent occurrence. I hadn't noticed this on any of my previous 11 dives, but I can't say I looked for it either. Anyway, I calmed myself down and just monitored the situation from then. Look at coral, marine life, check my computer, check my SPG, check my buddy. Rinse and repeat. About 25 minutes into the dive, I look over now the steady stream is a jet. It's hard to describe, but what was once discrete bubbles is now like a garden hose when you put your thumb over the opening and make a fan of water come out at a high velocity. That's what her connection looked like. So I immediately swam towards her (I wasn't in touching distance, but I was far enough away that I had to give several strong leg kicks to get to her). Before I got to her, one of the more experienced divers in our group got to her first and checked her pressure. As I got next to my buddy, the other diver looked over at me and gave me the OK sign, but then held her octo in her hand shielded from my wife.

Ok, so here I am with a very experienced diver (450-500 dives) telling me everything is OK yet holding her octo in her hand ready for the O-ring to blow. I'm thinking, I need to let my buddy/wife know this. As I went to tell my wife, the more experienced diver wagged her finger at me and told me not to. The more experienced diver then proceeded to escort my wife on the rest of her dive while I hung back a few feet thinking about things. At this point, I'm no longer thinking about the dive, I'm thinking about what can happen. So I'm thinking, if I were in my wife's position, oblivious to a possible O-ring failure, what would I do if I suddenly discovered a turbulent stream of bubbles hitting me in the back of my head and then being out of air. Would I know what was happening? (maybe) Would I freak out? (possibly). So at 34 minutes into the dive I called it. I went to the dive leader, pointed to my 1st stage, gave the bubble sign, then pointed to my wife. She called my wife over, looked at her pressure gauge and called for a safety stop. We did the 3 minute safety stop then ascended to the surface. Turns out my wife and I had the same air pressure left in our tanks, which means I was sucking air in worry or she was really good at conserving it, not sure which.

What would you have done in this situation? I tell you what we decided after I told her what had happened, even if it's not what you more experienced divers would've said.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

The important things to do in this scenario are: monitor air supply constantly; stay close to your buddy (touching distance); not do anything to panic a new diver if the situation is not imminently dangerous. The volume of an air leak can be from minimal to almost free flow. A friend and I once went on a dive at local reservoir, and had a bad tank valve on one of the rental tanks. We planned our dive to a maximum of 35 feet to essentially "practice" monitorng and then air sharing, and also to check the accuracy of his computer. The substantially flowing tank valve (not an o-ring problem) still lasted almost 30 minutes. This was an aluminum 80 filled to about 2850 PSI. When Charlie's computer (air integrated) read zero, he still was able to breath the tank for about another 30 breaths. So, in your scenario, once you were at depth, I think the divemaster or experienced diver acted properly. It would have been better had the "leaky o-ring" assuming that was the issue,(though as likely it was a poorly seated first stage) had been noticed before submerging, and the tank could have been replaced. But as there was no imminent danger, staying calm and monitoring the situation was the right approach. With experience you will have a better personal handle on gauging the significance of an air leak. What you can take from the experience is a reminder to do a thorough buddy check, that should include checking that air is on and listening for any escaping air from any part of the equipment. Leaks can happen at the regulator, alternate air source, low pressure inflator, and any tank connection- valve or 1st stage. A thorough buddy check can save you the anxiety of such things as a mis-seated 1st stage or o ring failure. Incidentally, if an o-ring "goes" they go fast, like totally and immediately, usually when you open the tank valve, with a pop. You likely has a poorly seated 1st stage. Be careful in gear assembly. Be a safe and active diver.
DivemasterDennis

 

[jar546]

I don't want to say that this is normal but we see this all the time and most of the time it looks worse than it is. Monitor air supply and stay calm. Most of the time, if not all of the time, the dive continues without a problem. Don't get me wrong, I am not blowing this off but this is common and I would have to see the amount of bubbles to determine how bad it actually was.

 

[tstormdiver]

From your side of the story,..... although the experienced diver, was trying to help, they had no business breaking into your team like they did, unless help was asked for, there was an immediate life threatening situation, they were part of the team or the dive leader for that trip. By doing that, the experienced diver took on a big liability, if things went really bad. At the point that the leak became such an issue for you, you should have called the dive, then calmly explained to your wife why you called it. Any diver may call any dive, at any time, for any reason with no repercussions. The only exception to this would have been if there was a reason the group needed to stay together (ie. in a drift dive) & usually there are contingency plans. You & your wife are Open Water divers & should be able to conduct your own dives, including calling it, if things are not right. If you are ever in doubt about a dive, call it off. You can always dive another day. If your wife ran out of air (which even with a leaking O-ring shouldn't happen, if she's watching her gauge), you both should know how to share air to get to the surface. You should have been taught how to do emergency skills & how & when to use them. If you feel your skills are not there or you are not comfortable with them, I would suggest getting with another instructor to practice them until you are comfortable with the skills & they are second nature. I am not trying to be condescending in any way, but if you were properly trained, there shouldn't have been any question as to what to do.

Any way, that's my thoughts on it.

As for the cylinder o-ring leaking, its not terribly common, but not unheard of either. If it is my cylinder leaking & it is not leaking too badly, I go on with my dive. If it is leaking bad enough to be of a concern, I end the dive. Simple as that. If the dive is no longer fun to you &/or your buddy, what's the point in continuing?

 

[redacted]

Leaking tanks are just not all that uncommon. Most small leaks will have little to no effect on a dive. So just keep an extra good watch on gas supplies to make sure a problem does not sneak up on you. Such leaks are usually pretty consistent and do not grow into a surprise problem very quickly. So be a good buddy and keep a close eye on what is going on. You have both been trained for a LOA or OOA emergency. so try to enjoy the dive and be prepared if things take a serious turn for the worse.

After the dive, remove and discard the o-ring.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Some buddy teams choose to do a "bubble check" at a shallow depth during initial descent. The dive team levels off at a depth of 10-15 ft. to check that there aren't any leaks and that alternate air sources can be easily deployed, i.e., the hose to a donated octopus is not trapped/snagged on some other gear. This helps the members of a dive team identify any issues, such as a leaky first stage reg-to-tank connection, early on before they mushroom into bigger problems. At that point, they can choose to continue the dive "as is," fix the issue, or abort the dive altogether.

awap offers good advice with regard to small leaks caused by an aging yoke tank valve o-ring. Typically they aren't a big deal. As he mentioned, it makes sense to stay close to your buddy in case the o-ring completely blows out at depth (which I've never personally witnessed in over a decade of diving but I know can happen). That being said, if you ever observe anything with your own or your buddy's gear that is concerning, you have every right to abort the dive. Better to be overly cautious than to potentially subject your buddy team to an unacceptable level of risk, right?

I agree with tstormdiver's assessment of the experienced diver butting in. That was a little strange. The way you described the experienced diver escorting your wife while you "hung back" makes it sound like your wife wasn't paying much attention to you. That's odd because you were her buddy, right? If you had a problem at any point during that dive, would she have been in a position to recognize it and help you with it? Beginner divers get distracted easily and need to be reminded about the importance of fundamental dive skills -- being a good buddy, maintaining comfortable buddy separation distance, communicating with the buddy, monitoring gas supplies, sticking to the dive plan, staying aware of what's going on around them, looking out for potential dangers above/below the surface of the water, etc.

There are some things that are difficult to communicate underwater to a buddy. Having a dive slate or wetnotes might have been useful on the dive in question. You could have written and shown the following note to your wife: "Slow leak from your tank valve. No big deal. I'll keep an eye on it." I doubt a run-of-the-mill scuba course would teach you the hand signals to communicate that message.

On a side note, what is the universally accepted scuba sign for "bubbles"? I've never learned that one.
If I needed to communicate that problem to the dive leader, I probably would have gotten his attention, told him to "look at" your wife's reg-to-tank connection, and then given the "problem" sign followed by a "question" shrug.

FYI, if at all possible, you should be listening for any leaking/hissing coming from your reg-to-tank connection during your pre-dive checks (as mentioned by DivemasterDennis). You should also be inspecting the yoke tank valve o-ring as part of your pre-dive routine. If the o-ring looks even a little "iffy," replace it. It should take just a few seconds to do. Keep the appropriate sized o-ring (-014) in your save-a-dive kit.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

Yoke regulators and rental tanks are notorious for these leaks. It's just one of several reasons why I only dive yoke if I absolutely have to.

I've started dives with leaking equipment, but I've got hundreds of dives and have certifications for repairing equipment...it's not something I can condone, but with the proper experience, I don't think a small leak needs to kill a dive.

I second the advice to buy a bag of the orings and change them on rental tanks if at all unsure of the quality of the oring on there, but you will find that each valve is unique. You'll need 013 and 014 orings, sometimes it helps to have 70 and 90 durometer, and sometimes the orings just don't stay on well until you've put a yoke reg on them and let it sit, tightened up, for a few minutes. Buy the orings online from some online dive shop, most LDS's seem to charge a lot. It's a rubber donut, should cost pennies, maybe 10 of them, not a dollar, each.

As always, plan your gas so that you and your buddy each have enough to get yourself AND your buddy to the surface from any point in your dive, off of only one of your tanks. Search on here for plenty of great advice about that, such as "rock bottom" gas planning.

Impress your wife by changing her tank oring every dive no matter what. Costs a few pennies, and I bet she'll feel special knowing you don't want her to die on a dive

 

[redacted]

I check that tank valve o-ring every time I install my regulator. I turn the gas on and check tank pressure. Then I turn it off and watch what my SPG does. (I'm a bit hard of hearing so I can't depend on listening for a leak.) If the needle holds steady then life is good. If the needle slowly falls, I turn the first stage a bit and that will often repair the seal. If not, I keep spare tank valve o-rings on all my 1st stages. I try not to replace a tank valve o-ring unnecessarily as sometimes the old o-ring can be a bit difficult to remove. They rarely can be popped out with a finger nail. Sometimes you cal loosen the yoke a little and dislodge it with tank pressure (easier done by accident than on purpose). A dive knife with a point will usually do the job but you are basically committed to changing the o-ring as soon as you put the knife to work. I also carry an o-ring pick in my save a dive kit.

 

[flots am]

> What would you have done in this situation? I tell you what we decided after I told her what had happened, even if it's not what you more experienced divers would've said.

Now that you have benefit of hindsight, my suggestion would be to practice OOA drills with your wife until they become boring and routine. Then make sure you maintain close buddy distance at all times. Then it doesn't matter if one of you has a hardware failure or a lapse of attention or an attack of "just plain dumb", the solution is always the same, just as it was taught in your OW class: Ascend to the surface, sharing air if necessary, and have the OOA diver establish positive buoyancy.

However in your exact situation, with your wife as a new diver, it's a really difficult call, and I've had it several times before. Being OOA can trigger panic and a bolt for the surface in a new diver. On the other hand, so can attempting an air share when they can't figure out what's going on. I don't have any answers for your exact situation except to watch very carefully and be ready for an OOA.

flots.

 

[Guyotron]

We recently dove in Jamaica, and during one of the dives the divemaster had a steady stream of bubbles escaping from his first stage, like you'd observed with your wife/buddy. I swam up to him and tried to gesture something was wrong (wagglying my hand back and forth and pointing at his first stage). He didn't understand. I took his dive slate and wrote 'leaky first stage' with an arrow pointing to him. He looked at me questioning and pointed at himself. I nodded 'yes'. He shrugged his shoulders, gave me the 'ok' sign and continued the dive as if nothing was wrong. I'm a new diver, and I feared an o-ring blowout. He was the dive master/guide and had no buddy, so I tried to keep my buddy and myself close by in case of a failure. Nothing happened. We finished the dive, did the safety stop and returned to the boat. We found out during the week of diving that leaky 1st stages are pretty common, and no one gets bent out of shape about it. I've witnessed another diver with a leaky 1st stage swim up to the dive master and very coherently sign that they're hearing something 'wrong' behind their head. I could see the line of bubbles. The dive master signalled all was ok, and the dive continued. Oddly enough, the leak stopped after a few minutes (not an OOA situation, either). We would regularly hear leaks on the boat when the air was turned on. Not my idea of fun or safety. My buddy and I started doing our own 'bubble checks' during this vacation. Sounds like a few ratty o-rings in the bunch. We do keep assorted o-rings in a save-a-dive kit, which we kept in a locker on the beach Fat lot of good it did us there.