NEDU Study

[Storker]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

The previous deep stop threads have been locked due to improper personal attacks by some posters. Unless the participants in this thread are able to discuss the decompression models and algorithms without resorting to personal attacks and ToS violations, this thread will also be locked. Alternatively, participants who can't abide by the ToS will be excluded from the thread.

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[Diver0001]

Same choice as always.....

a/ the interpretations and opinion positions of a trained Dr., who also publicly promotes his personal agenda for change,

or

b/ the math and trusted deco science formula that shows the reasoning of a/ above is not correct, carried out by an amateur scientist, who coincidentally builds some of the best deco planning tools.

....... reputation vs facts.

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Well...

I think I've laid out fairly well in the last few posts what the real issue is. Now, let me give you a bit of advice. If you don't want sales of vplanner to fall then your best bet for accomplishing that is to not post on the internet. You come across in these threads as unstable and the more you post the more I suspect people will start to wonder if they should be trusting your products.

I've told you before that I think you missed the opportunity of a life time to work with Simon and David to improve your products and keep up with the latest in decompression theory. Instead you metaphorically lit yourself on fire and started accusing everyone else of being crazy. I can't even begin to imagine what is going on in your mind that made that seem like a good idea.

peace out.

R..

 

[rossh]

This is another straw man but I will respond to this for the benefit of people who haven't read previous threads.

Simon demonstrated quite conclusively that VPM suffers from EXACTLY the same problem that BVM(3) has.

R..

No.... Real VPM-B has never been connected to BVM using proper valid scientific measures. There have been many attempts to do it: some used gross exaggerations or emulations, some used unproven non-valid measurements or marketing charts.

They all fail because the real science measures simply cannot be forced into a false premise.

There have been many opinion pieces and explanations offered to try to make a connection, but no proper science formula will back that up. Conversely, the real science measures and math, show there is no connection between nedu test and VPM-B.


Note: I could easily make up a junk ZHL + GF plan to look the same as the BVM profile... and then claim it was the same.... But it would be a deception to do so.... and that's not me.

Well...

I think I've laid out fairly well in the last few posts what the real issue is.....

No.... you have ignored the charts, graphs, scientifically valid measures, math and facts I have laid out. You have presented nothing to contend or refute these.

Your only argument seems to be to follow the original theoretical interpretation opinion based position (which we have disproved above).

I've told you before that I think you missed the opportunity of a life time to work with Simon and David to improve your products and keep up with the latest in decompression theory.
R..

Our tools already incorporate the current ideas of David and Simon.

We make tools for both sides of this argument, and current customers can swap back and forth as desired, for free. I am more neutral than you realize.

Divers can already make really long ZHL-GF plans, that use the new preferred Simon GF settings.

We have added the helium half time adjustments that David talked about at TekUSA. We also confirmed that our IBCD settings and matches up to more recent testing nedu did on this subject.

Our programs are the only ones to offer the diver all the tools to plan, graph and observe real supersaturation values the way the diver experiences them. Divers can look into this argument and decide on the facts for themselves.

We talked with Neal Pollock on ways to incorporate his decompression stress triggers.

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Diver0001: That list of talking points in front of you .... it's not very accurate now....



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[boulderjohn]

I would just like to step in to say that the argument that Ross' fear that the sales of ' v-Planner might suffer as a result of this change of thinking is not a valid point because the sales of his Multi-Deco, which works very nicely to plan dives in Buhlmann with whatever GFs you want, should do very well.I have been very convinced by the arguments raised by Dr. Mitchell and Dr. Doolette and no longer use VPM, but I do use Multi-Deco for dive planning. According to a past thread on this topic, so does Dr. Mitchell.

 

[UWSojourner]

I would just like to step in to say that the argument that Ross' fear that the sales of ' v-Planner might suffer as a result of this change of thinking is not a valid point because the sales of his Multi-Deco, which works very nicely to plan dives in Buhlmann with whatever GFs you want, should do very well.I have been very convinced by the arguments raised by Dr. Mitchell and Dr. Doolette and no longer use VPM, but I do use Multi-Deco for dive planning. According to a past thread on this topic, so does Dr. Mitchell.

I don't think this is correct, at least not if you're saying Ross has no financial interest in trying to keep VPM off the naughty list??

First, let's just say VPM dies as a realistic option for most divers doing meaningful deco. We may be getting there. But then Ross's program is not really "Multi-"Deco is it? For the deco diver it's functionally just a GF program and there are free GF options out there.

Second, Ross still sells his code on dive computers. But I think GF is provided as part of the computer cost on those computers, isn't it? So would you pay extra to get his GF version? I think the economics would argue that there is an interest there.

The idea that Ross's financial bias has vanished just because he now offers GF in his software is not on very solid ground. Financial bias is the best explanation I can come up with to explain his "interesting" behavior.

 

[Shearwater]

Ross has stated in another thread that when these threads get started, "sales go up." The motive is pretty clear to me at least.

This is something of a tempest in a teapot. VPM, according to the survey on What Deco Algorithm do you use? (Poll) is down to 3% use. We have seen the same sort of numbers with our data on VPM usage on our computers. From what I can tell, VPM use has been shrinking for a while.

According to Ross, using these threads to boost sales is apparently still a valid sales tool.

Bruce

PS: I have screen shots if Ross changes his post to remove that statement.

 

[Doby45]

Ross has stated in another thread that when these threads get started, "sales go up." The motive is pretty clear to me at least.

This is something of a tempest in a teapot. VPM, according to the survey on What Deco Algorithm do you use? (Poll) is down to 3% use. We have seen the same sort of numbers with our data on VPM usage on our computers. From what I can tell, VPM use has been shrinking for a while.

According to Ross, using these threads to boost sales is apparently still a valid sales tool.

Bruce

PS: I have screen shots if Ross changes his post to remove that statement.

*mic drop*

 

[Diver0001]

Ross has stated in another thread that when these threads get started, "sales go up." The motive is pretty clear to me at least.

I think it would be good for this discussion if you would link the source.

R..

 

[boulderjohn]

I think it would be good for this discussion if you would link the source.

R..

We would all have to do a search, but I recall the statement as well.

 

[rossh]

Ross has stated in another thread that when these threads get started, "sales go up." The motive is pretty clear to me at least.


This is something of a tempest in a teapot. VPM, according to the survey on What Deco Algorithm do you use? (Poll) is down to 3% use. We have seen the same sort of numbers with our data on VPM usage on our computers. From what I can tell, VPM use has been shrinking for a while.


According to Ross, using these threads to boost sales is apparently still a valid sales tool.


Bruce


PS: I have screen shots if Ross changes his post to remove that statement.

Throughout the years of this argument, the only posts you made on this whole subject, has been to insult and attack me with malicious comment on my business, my reputation, my integrity, my work, my home, my lifestyle, and my intentions.


You have not said a word about decompression theory or contributed to this discussion proper in any constructive way.



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