Necklace rigging

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JamesK once bubbled...
Tight up against your neck, but not overly tight. The bungee should stretch a little to help hold the reg in your mouth.

*Simply my opinion though*
I'm experimenting with a new design (just need to get the knots and a pulltab sorted) that uses 1/8" bungee and is adjustable. Basically it's a small loop on one end of a piece of bungee, that is very TIGHT around the mouthpiece, and the other end of the bungee is slipped under the loop (with a knot or pulltab on the end to prevent it slipping out), so you have the standard necklace - but in a handoff situation, you can pull the "loose" end of the bungee like a ziptie and tighten the bungee around your head so the reg doesn't fall out. The friction of the bungee under the tight loop of bungee around the mouthpiece keeps the necklace tight, but it is easily loosened by grabbing the reg from your mouth and giving it a good tug. Once I'm happy with it I'll post some pics.

So the necklace can be work loose for comfort and for putting it on/taking it off, and adjusted tight to hold the reg in your mouth when needed.
 
Now I use tubing & my mouth piece touches my throat. I dive Poseidons & have yet to be able to get the back up into my mouth w/o hands. Now in my pic, I have it rigged a bit different due to a 7' hose failure, but I normally have my octo on a 7' hose DIR fashion around my neck & in my mouth & my primary (black) 1st stage in neclace. Even when around my neck the reg sits sort of @ an angle.

W/O replacing regs :nono: , got any thoughs on it?
 
bengiddens,

I used to wear mine a little loose, kinda like you are describing, but I did not like it. I tightened it up more towards my neck, and it feels much better to me now. You can see in my profile that it hangs down. That is the old way I did it.

If you get your neckalce thing rigged up, post a picture of it. I would like to see it, and possible try it.
 
JamesK once bubbled...
Actually, no. This is because when I am horizontal, looking down is like looking forward on the surface. If I want to look behind me, I just fix my trim so I am slightly head down, and everything is AOK! I have my reg set so I can access it without using my hands. I can bend my head down, and reach it with my mouth.

So are you saying it does prevent you from looking 'down'? (down - as in back by touching your chin on your chest)

I have mine quite tight but it sometimes restricts neck movement (by catching my chin on it). I don't think I want it any tighter. One of the reasons I went for th modified Hogarthian rig was freedom of movement.
 
It is not actually all the way up on my chin, but about an inch below it, touching my throat. The mouthpiece does hit, but I do not think it restricts any movement.

I should have been a little more clear when I said it was up under my chin. It is under my chin, but an inch down my neck. Does taht make sense? Sorry if I caused any confusion! I am not thinking to well today.
 
I particularly like the article posted on the South Florida Dive Journal, as it gives me the clearest view of what you guys are talking about.

Because I am a photographer, I often dive SOLO. Obviously, this makes my use of the term "DIR" in reference to any of my own unacceptable diving habits the equivalent of blasphemy.

Although I've been diving for many years, I do not consider myself "advanced" (except in age). I am, however, experienced enough to appreciate much of what what has been adopted as "Hogartharian" diving (I hoped I spelt it Rite). At lof of this "technique" or "religion" (depending on the POV), is simply old school diving. Minimalist rigs, back floatation, brass spgs, jetfins and modified kicks for conditions, wrist mounted gauges...these were all common when I learned to dive in the mid 70's.

Although I had never heard of "DIR" until I came to this site, I find the philosophy interesting, if not altogether applicable to me and my current style of diving. I certainly can appreciate the thoughtful and serious approach they take to diving. Much of what I find lacking in the current state of dive training does appear to be addressed by the level of training and COMPETENCY espoused by the folks who practice "DIR". Competent trained divers are safe divers. A lot of what i see coming out of the LDS schools is just plain bunk.

Some of what DIR espouses is already my habit, some I have tried in the past and discounted, and others are completely new to me.

This "long hose" concept is fascinating. I have dived a long hose (6') in the past, but as my "safe second" and not as my primary. I was taught way (okay, WAY) back to run my backup over my opposite shoulder and to stow the hose so that it would release when tugged. I used it like this a couple of times and found it convenient when deployed and aggravating most of the rest of the time.

If a handoff could be completed, this was my donor rig. It placed the OOA diver in a "face to face" position, where you could watch his eyes and maintain some measure of control.

If the handoff was unsuccessful or incomplete, then this became my primary, albeit upside down with the hose coming over my left shoulder. (no exhaust tee for mask clearance. It would breathe "wet", but well enough....).

In that case, I got tired of constantly having to restow the thing as it would periodically come loose on my dives. I finally abandonded the long hose as an entanglement hazard. There had to be a better way, but I simply went back to using the "opposite" shoulder approach, but with a shorter hose. That is the way I dive today.

However, the idea of wrapping the hose around your neck and using it as your primary AND as the donor rig makes sense to me, even though it looks goofy as all get-out. I can see the common sensical approach and the inherent advantages.

Only a couple of concerns from my end:

First, I once had a panicked diver, NOT MY BUDDY, come from behind and snatch my secondary rig by the hose. Unfortunately, my "breakaway" lanyard didn't break away and he just about snatched my head off. As it was I had to deal with a panicky diver AND a flooded mask.


Second, I have had two incidences where my mouthpiece separated from my regulator. The first time, it was on a night dive in rough water in Lake Ponchartrain (don't ask!). I got a couple of warning "wet breaths" before the flood almost choked me. It seemed that my local LDS had convinced me to switch to a new "soft touch" silicon mouthpiece. Unfortunately, the strap tie literally cut through the mouthpiece material and it managed to hang on only enough to let me get to about 15' or so. Blecch. Lake Ponchartrain was nasty.

The next time, I don't know what happened, but I suddenly found myself at 70' with a mouthpiece in my mouth sans regulator.

Hence my worry---The DIR type bungee setup includes using the strap tie both as a mouthpiece fastener and a bungee restraint. This sort of double duty is generally considered an "engineering no-no" as it introduces both increased stress at the attachment point and increased risk of multiple failures during one "event".

I could see the apparent, if rare, problem of having a panicked diver in an OOA emergency grab your bungeed rig and ripping the mouthpiece free as he tried to swim up with it.

At that moment, you will have a mouth full of water, a look of surprise and (likely) a flooded mask. The panicked diver will likely be even more surprised when he discovers he has to breath out of a hard plastic orifice.

Does this mean I disagree with the principal OR the setup? Nope. I'm learning something new and simply working through the negatives. I'm curious to see how you guys address these concerns. I still think the idea is intruiging enough that I'm already pricing some "long hose" for a test dive with that setup. Now, I just need someone to convince me to put my bungee (or tubing) UNDER the strap tie for my mouthpiece. THAT is the only hangup I have with this right now.....

Thanks for your patience....
 
Try as I might, I can't see a panicked diver reaching PAST the working, breathing regulator in your mouth trying to go for one hidden under your chin.

A diver trying for a regulator from behind? Despite you having gone through this experience it's pretty unlikely, and in that situation anything can happen (he could grab the SPG hose for all we know). DIR isn’t a panacea. You could come up with a failure scenario for any kind of configuration in that case.

Just stick your primary behind you into their face and let them go for it (hopefully). If the mouthpiece is pulled off, breathe off the reg body. May not be comfortable but it certainly isn’t difficult.

Bottom line is you’re almost talking about a triple failure here: A OOA situation, a strange way of trying to get a regulator (from behind) AND the mouthpiece falling off in the process. We don’t bother to even try solving most double failures, much less triple ones.

Roak
 
I'll accept that what happened was rare, but it did happen. By way of explanation, my "safe second" hose was marked with colored tape, so it stood out. Maybe that is why he went for it.

I had no othe hoses "over the top" on that side. My SPG went underarm, where it was attached with a bolt clip. My BC, an ATPAC, had an internal inflate hose, with only about 6" of it exposed to grab. The ONLY hose available was my octo.

It is also possible the other diver was simply "grabbing on" to get to me and was not actually targeting the attached regulator. We never discussed the issue other than to say how happy we were that "things turned out".

I do worry some about the use of the strap tie to secure both the mouthpiece and the bungee to the regulator, but it is a minor picadillo that is base more on my perception that it is an inelegant arrangement, if not inherently unsafe.

I WILL likely give it a try, since the general configuration makes a lot of sense. MMm....where is a good spot to buy one of those hoses? I'm not having much luck.
 

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