(nearly) Hard earned lesson

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

sea_ledford

Contributor
Scuba Instructor
Messages
1,166
Reaction score
1,206
Location
Galveston, TX
# of dives
2500 - 4999
In an effort to pass on any hard earned lessons, I figured I would offer up this recent issue on my SF2. I’ll post later about what we figured out happened.


I was on a three-day monitoring trip, checking out off-shore rigs, and the unit had performed flawlessly for the first three dives, and it was time to change out the scrubber after the first dive of the second day. Repacked, rebuilt the unit and followed my checklist. Cells calibrated fine, MV was an appropriate range. No problems.


First dive was to be 150’ for 20 minutes. I had swapped out my primary CCR tanks for my backups that were 2L instead of 3L, but they were both full (2300, and 3200 psi of O2 and Dill respectively). I had a 40 of basically air (23% maybe) and a 40 of O2 for bailout. I was shooting pictures with a full sized dSLR, so my hands were full for the most part.


We go down to the rig at about 100’, I changed my set point to 1.3 after bringing it up manually. I usually keep it on the low set point and dive it manually, but with the task loading of the camera I decided to use the high setting.


At about 130 I see some cool stuff to take pictures of, spend a minute or two there, get underneath it of it to shoot up and get a good sunball as well and continue down to 150. As I go to take a shot once we have reached depth I notice my HUD is flashing red for cell 1. That’s no good. Check my hand set and cells are reading 1.67, 1.28 and 1.29. Solenoid isn’t going crazy, so I do a dill flush to confirm that cell 1 is the bad one. I really lay on the MAV, circulate the loop, nothing seems to be changing. I realize that once I get a slug of air from my bailout I’m not going to be thinking clearly, but I’ve done the trimix to air swap at depth before so at least I know what I’m in for. So I switched to OC on my BOV, get my buddies attention to pass off the camera. Get instantly narked. Whoo-hoo! I get back on the loop, flush again, now cell 1 is 1.3, and 2 and 3 are 1.6. I have probably floated up to about 130 at this point. Maybe I’m not circulating the gas enough? I exhale out my nose/loose lips until the counter lung bottoms out and nothing happens with gas addition. Manually add, no gas addition. WTF? Check my dill SPG and it is empty.


Still narked, swap back to OC, plug in my off board addition and then back on the loop once I have something to breathe. I then think of all the stories I’ve heard of people getting off the loop, addressing a problem, getting back on the loop and being dead five minutes later. I get off the loop before taking a breath and call the dive. Turns out Shrimp BOVs work great at 150’, I didn’t even swap out to my regular second stage until I switched gasses at 20’.


So any guesses as to what was going on?

-Chris
 
Curious. You can't have used 400 l of diluent in your loop flush or BOV switch, ergo you either did not have a full Dil tank or you got a major leak (bubble check)?
But to be sure I got it right: you planned a 20' dive at 150 ft with a 40 cf of air bailout?
 
I thought about a major leak too, but no it was just from flushing. I really hammered on the mav apparently! BOV is plumbed to bailout, so the onboard dill is just driving loop and wing. It is a 4.3L counter lung, so at 4 atm that's 20L for an exact flush, call it 25 with the rest of the loop volume, do that 3 times per flush cycle thats 75L each time. If I would have just dumped out all the gas and let the mav refill it would have been significantly less. Wouldda, couldda, shouldda that wasn't the way it happened. It was my first dill flush in anger :)

Yes, 40 cuft to get back to 20'. Plus two OC buddies with double 80's (and stupid low sac rates), and a hang tank of 32% at 20'. I called the dive at about 15 minutes and managed to just use the 40 with about 700 psi left at the switch. It certainly wouldn't do in a hypercapnia situation, but an 80 probably wouldn't do either. I have been contemplating taking more gas, and will probably bump up to a couple AL72's next time they are available. I could also use 50% instead of 100% in the other tank, but getting that filled locally is next to impossible.

-Chris
 
Glad you handled it well and returnd here so we can learn from the experience! Thanks.

From where I'm sitting, a little narced loop flushing can burn through a 2l impressively quickly at 130ft. Perhaps that's sufficient to explain your empty?

Dive happy,
Cameron
 
150 ft is 6 ata, so you would be loosing even more... This aside, I don't understand your cell readings. How do you get 1.6 on "good" cells after flushing (with normoxic dil?) and on your way up? I guess narce'd memories, or did you read this off your log?
I think you should rethink 40 cf as bailout at 150 ft though.
Good on you to have handled this one well.
 
The ADV on the SF2 is a wonderfully sensitive unit. I watched a friend burn through all of his DIL from his ADV without noticing it.

When you're diving do you leave the ADV wide open, or blocked off?

I'll normally leave the ADV open for the descent then block it off with the shut-off.
 
So any guesses as to what was going on?

-Chris

My guess? Your OPV was too open or stuck open. You were possibly venting gas out of it throughout the dive without realizing it (even normal lung volume can crack a loose OPV and it has happened to me). When you did your dil flush you were shooting gas mostly out the weak OPV and it didn't get a chance to flush out the DSV and over the cells, hence the stuck PPO2 reading.

Also i'd suggest solely venting from the corners of your mouth while in a semi head up position (if you weren't). It forces the gas out the DSV and the volume that should be coming out is too much for all but the strangest nasal passages.

That's my GUESS from watching people's mistakes for a living.
 
I think you should rethink 40 cf as bailout at 150 ft though.
Good on you to have handled this one well.
I agree. I had enough, but with little to no buffer. I only do it beacuse of the OC divers I'm with. I'm regretting not getting new AL72s when they were on sale a few months ago. XS scuba is supposed to be bringing them back full time in the near future though.

The ADV on the SF2 is a wonderfully sensitive unit. I watched a friend burn through all of his DIL from his ADV without noticing it.

When you're diving do you leave the ADV wide open, or blocked off?

I'll normally leave the ADV open for the descent then block it off with the shut-off.
ADV is open, I'll shut it off on ascent though. I don't think I'm unaware of when I'm bottoming out the CL (most of the time anyway), since I learned on the SM unit and it beat me up everytime I had other than ideal loop volume.

Certainly could have contributed though.

My guess? Your OPV was too open or stuck open. You were possibly venting gas out of it throughout the dive without realizing it (even normal lung volume can crack a loose OPV and it has happened to me). When you did your dil flush you were shooting gas mostly out the weak OPV and it didn't get a chance to flush out the DSV and over the cells, hence the stuck PPO2 reading.

Also i'd suggest solely venting from the corners of your mouth while in a semi head up position (if you weren't). It forces the gas out the DSV and the volume that should be coming out is too much for all but the strangest nasal passages.

That's my GUESS from watching people's mistakes for a living.

OPV is closed all the way, but I was doing more of a flooded loop flush method rather than a dill flush method, so correct on the not flushing out the cell chamber. Not sure why I was doing that... heat of the moment, stress and narcosis combination probably.
 
Working through it afterward we came up with this:

Empty dil was easy to figure out, 2L at 150 doesn’t last long when you are flushing like crazy (and incorrectly).

Originally we thought that the high cell reading was due to a sudden spike as the cell was in it’s death throws, but after I broke down the unit and went to re-cal the cells it seemed to be fine. Dropped back to .21 with the other two, back up to .98 and it tracked with the other two. It seemed to be working just fine. Certainly could have been current limited and I wasn’t seeing it at less than 1.0.

All of my problems to date with my SF2 have been moisture related, so I wondered if it was related to that. Thought back on the dive... I did flip face up to get that sunball shot... hmmm.

The way the head is set up in the SF2, the cells are at the highest point in the loop when in a well trimmed diving position. When I flipped over, I put the cells at the lowest point in the loop. So a drop of water on cell 1 locks the gas on the cell surface at 1.3 and as I drop down to 150 the PP goes up to 1.6. When I flushed I didn’t think to turn off my O2. So flushing dropped cells 2 and 3, but 1 still had water on it and it didn’t change. Now the solenoid is going crazy trying to keep the PO2 at 1.3, so by the time I look at the handset again I have come back up to 130 where cell1 is reading 1.3 and cells 2 and 3 are reading the actual gas composition of something stupid high. So good thing I didn’t stay on the loop after that (thank you John Rooney, RIP).

I dove the unit the next day without changing cells, had had no problems. What I also should have done is go back on the loop at my 20' stop, and flushed with O2 to see if the cell was current limited. Not sure if it would have helped all that much if there was still condensation on the cell face, but I could have at least started the trouble shooting process.

And in a bigger picture solution, the reason I am having moisture issues is I am keeping my CCR at a nice low potential energy position while on the boat (so it doesn’t fall over and break), so laying flat on it’s back! All the condensation is running into the cell chamber and onto the cells when I stand it up. Okay, I’ll lay it on it’s front instead.

Yeah so turns out that isn’t good either. The vibrations from the boat will make the scrubber settle and make a nice fat channel on the high side of the scrubber bed. Alright standing up is the way to go!

I’m glad I’m not having a completely trouble free first 100 hours, because if I did I would think I was a bad ass CCR diver. Now I know there is a ton of very important stuff that I don’t know that I don’t know. I just don’t know what it is yet...

Thanks to Silent O Solutions for helping me work through all this over text messages while I'm 100 miles offshore!

-Chris
 
Not clear why your solenoid would overshoot if the two good cells tracked well... The SF2 design is starting to sound intriguing.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

Back
Top Bottom