N00b diving the flower gardens this weekend - any last minute tips?

[scubablue67]

I applaud all the good advice shared here. My first thought was to rip him for risking his life so foolishly. But maybe your advice will help him make the right choice when the time comes. I'm sure telling him to forget it would have fallen on deaf ears.
I know our shop is constantly trying to explain to newer divers why they need to get a couple current and deep dives under their belt before heading out to the Flower Gardens. Yes the diving is inexpensive, quick to get to and wonderful, but the conditions demand an experienced diver. If a diver is hurt or bent during the trip it means the boat returns home because they won't evacuate unless it's life threatening. A real bummer for the other divers. There are enough undeserved incidents out there that happen to excellent divers. From my tech training and from the tragic event of a close friend I've learned that "Trust Me" dives are begging for trouble.
Rescue diver is an admirable rating to achieve but that rescue diver should have learned a thing or two about diving within your limits and convince his friend to skip the dive. The best way to deal with an accident is to avoid it.
Great advice none the less from all. I hope to dive with all of the thoughtful divers on the board someday. Nothing better than diving with a boat full of fun safe divers.

Cheers,
Rich

 

[Guba]

Supposedly, I'm writing this while the OP is "out there".
The good news is that the seas are running less than one foot in the FG right now.
The bad news is that the wind is practically non-existant, too. I certainly hope their sailboat has a motor, because otherwise it's gonna take them a loooong time to get out there.
Now, if the currents will just behave, they should have some excellent diving conditions. Sure hope so!

 

[daniel f aleman]

I applaud all the good advice shared here. My first thought was to rip him for risking his life so foolishly.

The best way to deal with an accident is to avoid it.

Cheers,
Rich

Goddam right!!

I don't like his dive plan at all...

 

[BIGG_BUDD]

Wow. Just read this thread. That's a whole lotta risk for two dives.

I hope this dude comes back alive.

 

[Kaiser442]

I'm back! The trip was great.

Before my trip details, I'd like to respond to the tone of a couple of the last few posts: I don't think it is fair to pull the "risking your life" card on this dive. We risk our lives when we walk out the door in the morning (and even when we choose not to). There are risks in everything we do and it's up to the individual to decide when those risks are reasonable. I played up the "negatives" of this dive in my original question (maybe "played up" is a bad word choice because it makes it sound like I lied... what I mean is that I laid bare my biggest weaknesses and the biggest weaknesses of the plan) at the risk of looking a bit foolish in order to get the best advice I could to help minimize what I viewed as the greatest risks.

If I'd chosen to state the plan in a different way, say, that "I'm going diving with a group of skilled older divers in conditions that are at the limits of, but not worse than what I've done before, the "you're crazy" factor would have been less - but the advice might not have been as well thought out.

There were a couple of out-of-the-ordinary risk factors here, so I did some extra planning and thinking, but in the end I felt like the dives we did were well within the margins of "safe" and I'm proud of myself for having examined the risks, for having come to my own conclusions about whether the risks were acceptable, and for executing my plan. If you disagree with my conclusions, that's perfectly fine. Feel free to add my name to your personal "I won't dive with HIM!" list

On to the good stuff:
The boat turned out to be bigger and nicer than I expected: 48' with one of those hard fiberglass bottom zodiacs (no motor on the dinghy - but functional oars!). We got EATEN by mosquitos on while loading up and it was extremely hot and windless on the way out, but everyone was too excited to be going on the trip to mind too much.
We sailed for awhile, but ultimately decided that we wanted to get there this week so we powered almost all of the way out. The boat cruised at about 8 knots under power, quite good for a sailboat. We decided on the West Bank, and made it there in about 16 hours, arriving Friday night at about 11pm. There was one other boat out there when we arrived.

At about 6am Saturday, the Fling and Spree showed up and were VERY rude, particularly to the other boat. I think they wanted them to give up their mooring to them or something. They were shining their spotlights into the boat and blasting their horn repeatedly... I don't know what that was about (This is second hand from the other guys on my boat. I was below and dead to the world asleep at the time).

We strung a buoy out behind us with a couple hundred feet of poly line, put the zodiac in the water, and dropped in at 8:42am for a half hour dive that was in the 65-75 foot range for most of the dive and maxed out at 88. The current was mild but noticeable - so we went down the mooring line and swam upcurrent for the first part of the dive. Saw lots of tube worms, nice coral, barracuda, a small southern stringray, a couple big grouper, and the usual array of other small fish (parrotfish, wrasse etc). No whale sharks or other biggies. We came up a little bit down current from the boat and a bit to the side, but a few minutes of surface swimming brought us back to it.
We hung out and watched the Fling/Spree divers come and go for awhile. It actually ended up being almost a 3 hour surface interval before we got around to getting back in.

The second dive was pretty much like the first except that I took a bit more of an active role in discussing what course we should take up and back and in checking my compass to make sure we were following the plan throughout the dive. I was much more comfortable on this dive and had quite a bit of air left when my buddy signalled that he was getting low - turns out his octo was leaking a little bit and neither of us noticed the trickle of air. We ended it early (though somehow it ended up being exactly the same time as the previous dive according to my computer) and returned to the boat pretty happy (this time we had gaged the up/down current distance back to the boat much better but we were still a bit out to the side. Another quick surface swim brought us back aboard).

The boat trip back was probably the best part of the weekend. There was a wonderful breeze that kept us cool, the stars, meteorites, and satellites were out in abundance, and the phosphorescent algae in the water were going crazy. At one point the wind was strong enough to cause white caps, which glowed from the algae as they broke.

A lot of my pictures didn't turn out too well - I think it was a mistake to leave the NiMH batteries at home to try it on alkalines... looks like the external strobe didn't fire on several of the pics... anyway, they are HERE

Thanks again, everyone!

 

[Guba]

Glad you made it back okay and had a good time.
The FG is like that...mesmerizing. That's why I go back time after time and volunteer for the NMS.
August trips are most likely to be like that. However, a very (and I mean VERY) experienced DM who works out there once told me, "Those are 3% days (little wind and very little current). They happen 3% of the time!"
Glad you had a good trip.

 

[RTRski]

Before my trip details, I'd like to respond to the tone of a couple of the last few posts: I don't think it is fair to pull the "risking your life" card on this dive. We risk our lives when we walk out the door in the morning (and even when we choose not to). There are risks in everything we do and it's up to the individual to decide when those risks are reasonable. I played up the "negatives" of this dive in my original question (maybe "played up" is a bad word choice because it makes it sound like I lied... what I mean is that I laid bare my biggest weaknesses and the biggest weaknesses of the plan) at the risk of looking a bit foolish in order to get the best advice I could to help minimize what I viewed as the greatest risks.

Glad you survived, but IMO you were dicing with God. And note I wasn't one of the ones making the 'risking your life' quotes - I tried to just point out the reasonable risks early on and let you make your own assessment, as you say - but you were, especially if you hadn't been diving in over a year, in equipment that was past a check-out date.

Every dive is a deco dive, every dive is a 'risk' just as you note driving is. But if it's foggy you drive slower with lights on to make up for it. At the FG, there's really no way to 'dive more careful' if you don't bring the right stuff with you (headlights in the analogy, safety equipment like O2 etc for the dive). And even if you do have the proper equipment and plans in place - there's no way to bring the bottom up shallower, no recovery if the shackle breaks (you didn't think "permanent" moorings were truly permanent, did you? They maintain them regularly by replacing parts and even sinking new concrete bunkers), no where to hole up if a storm comes in, etc. If you don't have O2 you can't rely on the assistance of strangers, etc.

Your report indicates you came up downcurrent of the boat both times but were able to swim back. You got lucky. Current can easily get strong here at varying belts as was stated. My last trip, if we didn't come up the line, we'd have been gone to Mexico without a chase boat...current was worst at the surface. Any wind and no way even a strong rower in a Zode is gonna go fetch you and get back any easier than you did in the water.

Your report says nothing about anyone staying up while the others dove in shifts for diver recovery. You got lucky.

Only two dives, plenty of interval, there's no real deco risk if you manage ascent rates and bottom times. No luck involved here. But of course we all know DCI hits can happen even inside of computer and table limits, and you didn't have O2 or anything in the event one happened. Hmmm...yep, you still got lucky.

You even say you "didn't notice your buddies equipment was leaking" as justification for him using air earlier. Either you're being kind because he Hoovered a bit, or you didn't do a bubble check, and HE got lucky.

I'm in the same 'boat' as you in that I've probably dove the gardens earlier than I 'should have' compared to some of the advice on this board, and been 'lucky'. But I did so on a liveaboard with well-designed plans for evacuation and emergency, with Oxygen, people remaining topside during all dives, chase boat with motor, breathing Nitrox, currently checked out equipment, prior equal depth experience inside of a year, and recent refresher dives inside of 3 months. And my first trip down there was still only a week after two back-to-back trips had to evac for a CG helicopter pickup of a diver that took a DCI hit and had to be flown to the nearest chamber (and I knew one of the two, who was a DM, frequent FG visitor, and married to/buddied with an instructor, so hardly an inexperienced diver). No exaggeration. I did have to abort one dive on my last trip down because my buddy did see excessive bubbling from my tank valve. Although an o-ring blow once you've got the reg seated on the valve is pretty rare, and I admit I didn't want to abort (I was even a bit rude about it after the dive for a bit, before I got over the 'he took my cookies away' mentality) - he made the right decision. I'm glad I had a buddy who did what buddies were supposed to.

As to your bit about the 'rudeness' of the Spree and Fling, I think you're not telling the whole story. From their trip report page:

What a great group of folks who joined us on a Flower Garden 2 day trip. We arrived at the West Bank to find a boat with spear guns on-board, and they got really grumpy when we woke them up and asked them if they were diving or fishing...

Surely these "skilled older divers" you speak of know there's no spearfishing in the FGNMS?

You got lucky. If you ever do end up on the Fling or Spree, I probably would choose not to dive with you if I knew it was you, but mostly on the basis of the lack of a buddy check, by your own words. That, and lack of respect for the sanctuary. Sorry, them's my 0.02, and I stick by them.

 

[Guba]

I can hear this one warming up, and I don't intend to add fuel to the fire at all. Some of what you, Kaiser442, say is understandable but still a bit alarming. And some of what RTRski says nails what many of us have been concerned with all along. Risk management is fine in theory, but the problem is that by the time you realize the theory is flawed, you're in deep and there's no one to pull you out.
The statements about the O2, the motorless launch, faulty gear checks, and blown plans (otherwise you wouldn't have come up away from the buckle both times) only fuel the trepidations of several who responded to your original query and lend credence to what RTRski plainly said...you were, indeed, fortunate. I don't mean to imply that you "cheated death" or something as melodramatic as that. I merely hope to point out that you should not be lured into thinking that diving the FG is as cushy as you experienced this weekend. It can be like that, and I've been fortunate to dive there several times in such conditions. However, I've also hung on that mooring line when the current was so strong that if you turned your head 90 degrees to it, your mask would be ripped off. And it wasn't like that on the way down, either, only on the ascent. I've also dived when the current was going one way, but the wind another. In conditions such as those, your motorless zociac would only complicate matters by stringing more victims over a wider area.
You get the point. You are, in fact, hopefully more ready to dive there than you were before. Just remember that first impressions can work against you, too. Don't presume on your good fortune on future trips. Instead, plan to handle contingencies with training, practice, and additional gear.
And if there was a speargun out in plain sight on a boat in the FG, the captain of the Spree was well justified in finding out what was going on. Spearfishing in a NMS is definitely a good way to obtain a really big ticket and even get your boat impounded. Those captains are more than just entrepreneurs delivering divers to the FG. They work in close contact with the FGBNMS and its staff. They're our "eyes" out there, and they are greatly appreciated.
Just my pair of pennies on the matter...

 

[RTRski]

Yeah, I should moderate my comments by restating I meant them to simply be suggestive, and not intended to be insulting or hostile. I have no intent to flame (well, not in this thread). But I was concerned at a continued apparent ignorance* of what you were doing; frankly if there's "blame" then the experienced older divers should shoulder more of it than you, anyway. They're the ones organizing a trip without proper backup and equipment. (And with stuff they shouldn't have had on the banks, instead.)

No harm intended. But I do think you got off lucky. And there are those who think the same about my 2 trips there, so if what you said scared me, it must've scared the peyotes off those who have *really* experienced the rougher stuff out there!

RTRski

*(And 'ignorance' isn't intended to be insulting: as my dad used to always tell me, "ignorance is cured with training...stupidity is for life". )

 

[ScubaTexas]

All good suggestions and comments being made. With regard to the speargun issue and the suggestion that the boat Kaiser422 was on had the spearguns referred to by the report of Spree/Fling, I read Kaiser422's report a little differently; it sounds like to me it was the other boat at the FG that was being "woken" up by the Spree or Fling and presumably had the spearguns on it.

At about 6am Saturday, the Fling and Spree showed up and were VERY rude, particularly to the other boat. I think they wanted them to give up their mooring to them or something. They were shining their spotlights into the boat and blasting their horn repeatedly... I don't know what that was about (This is second hand from the other guys on my boat. I was below and dead to the world asleep at the time).

Also, while it is clearly illegal to be in the water with a speargun in a NMS, is it illegal to have them on a boat (but not being used) if the boat is in NMS waters?