I can't figure out how you got away with only buying one scooter.
My Piranha P-1 Just Arrived!
- Thread starter guyharrisonphoto
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@guyharrisonphoto
Great write up thanks. It has given me some food for thought.
Our Sierra's are getting long in the tooth (7 years old) and I'm contemplating upgrading both mine and my wife's (Diving isn't cheap in our household)
We don't' travel with ours but if yours is as light as you say and batteries so inexpensive teh P1 might be a possibility.
We like brute power here. At the weekend we were in current and at max power you could just hold station in the current - you weren't going forward, so that's my prime consideration.
I've had an eye on the Bonex discovery as I like fact that I have double the thrust of the Sierra but more important (for us) the huge battery life with the two independent batteries) which means on a two day trip (our normal dive weekends) I wouldn't have to charge. But now looking at the P1 while it has less power, it's only 25% less, and with the batteries.... It might be a contender...
Keep us updated
Food for though
Great write up thanks. It has given me some food for thought.
Our Sierra's are getting long in the tooth (7 years old) and I'm contemplating upgrading both mine and my wife's (Diving isn't cheap in our household)
We don't' travel with ours but if yours is as light as you say and batteries so inexpensive teh P1 might be a possibility.
We like brute power here. At the weekend we were in current and at max power you could just hold station in the current - you weren't going forward, so that's my prime consideration.
I've had an eye on the Bonex discovery as I like fact that I have double the thrust of the Sierra but more important (for us) the huge battery life with the two independent batteries) which means on a two day trip (our normal dive weekends) I wouldn't have to charge. But now looking at the P1 while it has less power, it's only 25% less, and with the batteries.... It might be a contender...
Keep us updated
Food for though
OP
Your needs might be different than mine, but here is what I can offer. If travel is in your future, there is only one choice. If you dive on crowded boats and need small size and light weight, there is only one choice. If you have long hikes for shore dives, there is only one choice. if you want a lifetime of cheap, super fast charging, interchangeable and non-proprietary batteries, there is only one choice.
As for power, the p1 has 63 lbs of thrust, and the Bonex 75, a 19% increase. I have no way of knowing if this decisive for you. From my first dive with it, I believe the P1 will hold me in any current up to the point where it becomes almost impossible to keep your mask on if you turn your head. That is all that I need.
From here, it is more complex. If you want "ultimate no compromise performance" and size, weight, travel, and battery cost is not an important concern, then there are other scooters that might have an edge. The Bonex Geference series, and the Genesis scooters, come to mind. If you are a cave diver, there might be safety or convenience features on other scooters that could be important.
As for run time, it is a little more complicated. You can add battery modules. As the P-1, it offers one hour at full and 2.5 hours at cruise and that seems about right from my first dive. You can multiply that by two, or three, by adding more battery packs. Once you do that, you are at the size/weight of the Bonex Discovery. But, you have the option to go small if you want.
Also, my DeWalt batteries are very small, light and charge fully in only 45 minutes. You could carry a spare set, or two, for a small fraction of the proprietary battery, and it takes about three minutes to swap them out. Or, if you operate from a shore location or a boat with power, you could charge the batteries over the lunch break.
I demoed the Bonex Reference a couple years ago. I really loved it--powerful, fast, easy to control, everything you would want in a scooter. But, for my needs (small, light, travel, high power, adjustable gears), the P1 was the better choice, (not to mention the almost $1900 discount from the deal I got).
OP
My wife does not like messing with extra "gear" stuff and only wants to enjoy the dive. She knows that, in a current, I can tow her and is happy with that. So we're a "one scooter couple" Works great and easier on the bank!
How does that work? Do you grab her by hand, or clip something onto her? if I could do something similar, a scooter would be that much more financially possible
.
OP
We go arm-in-arm, or, if we want to streamline, she can grab the butt D-ring on my crotch strap (talk dirty to me!)
The P1 looks pretty interesting.
How do you charge it? Do you have to take all 4 battery packs out and put them through a regular DeWalt charger, like you'd use for your cordless drill?
Do you carry one charger and put all 4 battery packs in it one after the other? So, charging 4 packs at 45 minutes each means it takes 3 hours? Do you carry 4 chargers and a power strip with you, so you can charge all 4 battery packs at once?
If you upgrade to a P2 or P3, does it discharge all 8 or 12 battery packs at the same time, or does it discharge 4, then when they are done, start discharging the next 4? I'm really just thinking about whether one dive with a P3 means you have to go through putting 12 battery packs through the charger, or would a short dive mean you only have to charge 4 and a medium dive you only have to charge 8 packs.
Of course, if there is a way to just plug in the scooter and charge all the battery packs in it at once, that would be ideal.
Too bad it's so much slower than the Reference RS and the Magnus. If it was as fast, or at least somewhat close, it would be a no-brainer (to me). As it is, it is still tempting, but will be a tough decision when I'm ready to plunk down.
How do you charge it? Do you have to take all 4 battery packs out and put them through a regular DeWalt charger, like you'd use for your cordless drill?
Do you carry one charger and put all 4 battery packs in it one after the other? So, charging 4 packs at 45 minutes each means it takes 3 hours? Do you carry 4 chargers and a power strip with you, so you can charge all 4 battery packs at once?
If you upgrade to a P2 or P3, does it discharge all 8 or 12 battery packs at the same time, or does it discharge 4, then when they are done, start discharging the next 4? I'm really just thinking about whether one dive with a P3 means you have to go through putting 12 battery packs through the charger, or would a short dive mean you only have to charge 4 and a medium dive you only have to charge 8 packs.
Of course, if there is a way to just plug in the scooter and charge all the battery packs in it at once, that would be ideal.
Too bad it's so much slower than the Reference RS and the Magnus. If it was as fast, or at least somewhat close, it would be a no-brainer (to me). As it is, it is still tempting, but will be a tough decision when I'm ready to plunk down.
OP
Hi Stuart,
I bought a deWalt 4 bay charger. Charges all 4 in 45 mins, but if they are only half drained it is only 20 mins. You could typically charge 12 batteries in well under two hours, and even if they were completely drained, just over two hours. FAR faster (2-3 times as fast) than most proprietary LiOn packs will charge, especially the big ones.
I don't know how it works with P2 and P3 modules, if they discharge all at once, or sequentially. Contact DiveX--they will tell you for sure. But, the big advantage is that you do not need to go P2 pr P3 unless you have a specific need for super-long run times. I dove this weekend. Two dives, one 54 mins, one 48 mins. Reef dives with no current, so I was on the trigger a lot, but the darn thing is so strong I never needed or wanted over half speed even with my camera mounted. So, if you are boat diving, for any dives up to two hours actual trigger time at a combination of speeds, you only have to go P1 and leave the other modules at home to save weight and size, no to mention saving the $1K cost (each) of the power tool battery modules.
On my two dives, I used less than half of the capacity of the P1 pack. So, you can start with a P1 and save money, and then, if you get into cave diving or 4 hour rebreather ocean dives, get the extra packs. For me, even on a liveaboard or boat doing 4 dives a day, I would get the P1 and just carry a spare set of deWalts--way cheaper than another module, and it only takes a minute to swap them out at lunch--then charge them all over dinner!
I think you will discover a serious misconception if you think it is "so much slower" than those other models. Who drag races with scooters?? It is more than "somewhat close." It is very close. Even if it has a little less thrust, I'll have mine in Bonaire and Indonesia or wherever I want to fly, and on crowded boats, and an easy carry across the beach for a shore dive, where those will never make it.
I bought a deWalt 4 bay charger. Charges all 4 in 45 mins, but if they are only half drained it is only 20 mins. You could typically charge 12 batteries in well under two hours, and even if they were completely drained, just over two hours. FAR faster (2-3 times as fast) than most proprietary LiOn packs will charge, especially the big ones.
I don't know how it works with P2 and P3 modules, if they discharge all at once, or sequentially. Contact DiveX--they will tell you for sure. But, the big advantage is that you do not need to go P2 pr P3 unless you have a specific need for super-long run times. I dove this weekend. Two dives, one 54 mins, one 48 mins. Reef dives with no current, so I was on the trigger a lot, but the darn thing is so strong I never needed or wanted over half speed even with my camera mounted. So, if you are boat diving, for any dives up to two hours actual trigger time at a combination of speeds, you only have to go P1 and leave the other modules at home to save weight and size, no to mention saving the $1K cost (each) of the power tool battery modules.
On my two dives, I used less than half of the capacity of the P1 pack. So, you can start with a P1 and save money, and then, if you get into cave diving or 4 hour rebreather ocean dives, get the extra packs. For me, even on a liveaboard or boat doing 4 dives a day, I would get the P1 and just carry a spare set of deWalts--way cheaper than another module, and it only takes a minute to swap them out at lunch--then charge them all over dinner!
I think you will discover a serious misconception if you think it is "so much slower" than those other models. Who drag races with scooters?? It is more than "somewhat close." It is very close. Even if it has a little less thrust, I'll have mine in Bonaire and Indonesia or wherever I want to fly, and on crowded boats, and an easy carry across the beach for a shore dive, where those will never make it.
Speed isn't always the driving factor - indeed there are lots of things to be considered that only become apparent once you've owned it
Guy's reviews on the P! certainly have peaked my interest, but conversely Guy and I possibly dive in dissimilar conditions.
My Benchmark has to be our Dive X Sierra's that we've used for the last 5 years. I know that even at max there are times they can't break through current - indeed I've popped into current before and gone backwards. So for me significant thrust is important.
Also Run time - the manufacturers quoted figures in my experience are "ambitious" and of course are affected by drag and weight of a diver and kit
And this is important, we all dive differently so what works for me where I dive and also my perceived needs may not work for you.
As is battery life, now the charge time Guy quotes is superb - I need at least 4 hrs preferable over night - thus I have 3 batteries per scooter. At almost $1000 per battery it gets to be expensive. So if I could get the P1 (or P2/3) to work it might be a godsend although humping all those batteries around might be a chore
The Genesis is the only Scooter I know of that allows external charging, it is a consideration of how easy it is to remove the batteries for charging. I can tell you on my Sierra's the clips on the outside hurt yoru fingers after 2 or 3 days, and we've all modded our batteries with webbing handles. The Suex VR are also unwieldy to take the battery out - and it's no longer water tight while the battery is out
The Gears on the Dive X are good and most of the time I only use 1-3 (out of 5 on mine) The trouble is, when you're I a team different scooters perform differently (people have different drag) so it's harder to match speeds
Weight is an issue, but I don't intend to air travel so that's not important to me
and of course cost
I like the Bonex Discovery for lots of reasons but with additional batteries its $10000 per unit (MSRP) and I'd need 2 otherwise my wife would kill me (or steal it for herself)
That's a lotta dosh! We used ours maybe 40 weekends a year so we can get a fair use out of them - But still $20,000
The P1 offers a programmer kit that works off a PC via a USB cable. You disconnect the trigger wire and plug in the programmer. With the programmer you can customize the speeds and voltage cut-off (at what voltage the scooter 'dies'). Mine came with Cuda programming (set by P.O.) which switched off much sooner than stock P1 (35V vs. 30V) and had a horrible set of speeds. I went back to stock P1 and then customized the speeds for faster response. You ou can have up to 10 programmed speeds.
So if you are diving with the same folks all the time, you could 'dial in' the P1 with other brands if you really wanted to take the time (and test dives).
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