My observations on the buddy system

[Codiak]

I don't see it as a need to end the dive that instant.

First, this isn't a cave or wreck dive that demands adherance to a plan.
Second, why waste the dive? Plans can change in simple open water dives. If your buddy is doing his/her own thing, then you stick by them and be the good buddy. That keeps the "team" together and safe.
third, a "buddy" who is doing thier own thing probably would ignore your desire to surface and keep doing thier own dive. This is the tye of diver who probably needs you there in case something goes wrong.

If we plan a dive and you violate that plan, all trust is lost and that dive is over.
Plans don't have to be complex, simpler is better with new buddies. But any compromise needs to occur on the surface before the dive and can include for flexibility during the dive.

I can't count the times I'm been assigned a buddy who is going to take such and such photo and we hang in one spot for most of the dive... not my idea of fun but okay if that's what it takes to dive that day *shrug*

Most of the time it really isn't an issue... out of 200 pickup buddy dives I've only thumbed 4 of them. But then in all cases I was clear... deviation = thumb ;-)

Staying close, getting an occasional okay, remaining aware of surroundings, and sticking to time/depth/air just isn't that difficult.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

uggh at risk of another scuba industry thing, the agencies want you to take more courses. duh. they leave stuff out in OW, like navigation, and a solo diver mentality. we train them day 1 to be solo divers. If they dive as a buddy team they are completely independent of one another and are just there to help out if need be and share in the experience. One of the nice things with GUE is they teach this mentality from day 1. I don't agree with a lot of stuff they do, but 98% of it is spot on with what we teach, and preach to some extent.

Where did you get the notion that GUE teaches a solo mentality? That's about as far from the GUE approach as one can possibly get.

GUE is about the team ... everything they do stresses functioning as a team. They are the ultimate buddy training system.

The GUE system is all about "standardizing" ... because diving as a team revolves around the notion of "predictable behavior" ... and when everyone learns and does things the same way, it's easy to predict what your buddy's going to do.

One huge advantage is that you can then go anywhere in the world, hook up with a diver you've never met but who's been similarly trained, and dive comfortably with that person from the get-go. It's not the physical diving skills that make that possible so much as the commonality of attitude and commitment toward being a part of a functioning team.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[tddfleming]

I can think of several reasons why this would happen.

- The divers are so unskilled that they're struggling just to maintain their position in the water. They're using up all their mental bandwidth just trying to keep from rising or sinking, and don't have anything left for anybody else. It's an "every man for himself" situation.

- They were never taught how to be a dive buddy. Sure, they may have gotten some platitudes about how this is what you're supposed to do ... but nobody ever bothered saying "here's how you do it". This is an "I don't know how" situation.

- The instructor doesn't take buddy diving seriously, so the students see this and figure they don't have to either. This is a "why bother" situation.

- They figure the rules don't apply to them. This is the "who, me?" situation.



Good call ... the rule for kids is that they are only allowed to buddy up with a parent or someone the parent specifically designates.


It sounds as though your instructor doesn't take the buddy system very seriously ... therefore his students won't either. This was my impression reading your initial post, when you were discussing the class diving as a group. One doesn't learn buddy diving that way ... one learns herd diving. Herd diving is where everyone dives as an individual and focuses on the herd leader (in this case, the instructor).

The proper way to teach buddy skills is to take only two divers at a time on the dive, and make sure they know that they are the team ... the instructor or DM is only along to observe, and to provide feedback afterward. Prior to that dive, the skills of cohesion and communication need to be discussed. Cohesion means "here's how you descend together, here's how you dive together, and here's how you ascend together". Communication means "here's how you stay in contact with each other during the dive". This includes hand signals, the use of lights (when appropriate), positioning, and body language. It also involves some behavioral changes ... like learning to turn your head rather than relying on peripheral vision (which you don't have with a dive mask on) or assumptions (that your buddy's going to do what or be where you expect them to). If these things aren't taught, then you don't have a buddy at all ... you have a liability in the water who's likely to do unpredictable things and keep you too stressed out to enjoy the dive.


The skill that most makes you a good buddy is also a skill that is most needed for solo diving ... that would be good awareness of what's going on around you. There are many excellent reasons to solo dive ... lacking buddy skills isn't among them. At issue is that if someone's too lazy to work on being a good dive buddy, they're unlikely to have the self-discipline needed to be a good solo diver.


The problem with this approach is that it tends to create a dependent diver ... someone who hires someone else to "take care of me". That may work out OK for easy tropical dives, but for more challenging conditions ... even at your local quarry ... it's not a good idea. It's far better to limit the scope of your dives for a while and work on developing the skills needed to dive as a buddy team. Being a dive buddy is a commitment to a certain amount of effort and self-discipline. When you're diving with a loved one, the motivation to make that commitment is very strong. That can be a positive thing ... as long as you remain within the limits of your training and comfort zone.

Some time back I wrote an article intended for those who wanted some guidance in how to be a dive buddy ... some of the newer divers out there may find it useful ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob:

Thanks for your thoughts on this. We have been working hard at looking at our inst only for inst for our classes that we have taken. This was a lesson that we learned in our very first OW dive. Do not follow him to the edge. I am now on my second shop looking for better inst. What you mention up in the bold is exactly what we have been doing. Can you say BORING? We stay pretty shallow, we work on ourselves and what we feel we need to work on, our list is long, but we plug away. We have gone to the pool once a month and practiced. We do not do anything risky. Plus she has learned to call a dive at a drop of a dime. We have learned a lot just by both of us learning together. We do a bubble check before desending, why, during OW she had a small leak at the connection of her tank valve and 1st stage. We check to make sure our masks are sealed well, to keep that annoyance down, we do this when we swim also. One less thing to worry about. We may take the buddy system to extremes but it works for us. Through our class this past weekend, she found out she loves, search and recovery and wreck. We also found out she can tie a mean knot UW without the help of anyone. We have also learned to develop our own skills. While our relantionship on land is more of the mother daughter thing. However, UW while the bond is still there, that relationship takes a change. As for our buddy check pre-dive, I doubt I could do the same check on a stranger. I breath from her primary and octo. I am not sure that would be acceptable if paired with someone new. But I know they are working.

I would love to find a mentor, but I am not holding my breath. Until then we will just keep plugging away a little at a time, taking classes to better ourselves and having fun.

 

[tddfleming]

This kind of nonsense is one of the reasons why I pursued training with Bob as well. I have since dove with similarly trained folks on both coasts, and never had anything approaching that kind of disrespect for teammates. In fact, to say that team integration has been seamless would be an understatement--I've never had such fun as on my last dozen-or-so dives.

You will see when you take Primer that the first priority is always team. That said, Primer is the more individually-oriented class; it wasn't until Fundies that I truly got the nature of good teamwork--and that was despite having a similar experience to you in terms of being extremely concerned with my buddy's welfare and vice-versa (since my first 35 dives or so were all buddied with my wife). What I found was that wanting to be a good buddy goes a long way, but actually being a great buddy requires more than the desire to be, it requires (specific, trainable) skills as well.

Keep it up, and if you ever find yourself in the NJ/PA area drop me a line and maybe we can dive together.

If you ever come down this way let me know and we will meet someplace and dive together, thanks

 

[tbone1004]

Where did you get the notion that GUE teaches a solo mentality? That's about as far from the GUE approach as one can possibly get.

GUE is about the team ... everything they do stresses functioning as a team. They are the ultimate buddy training system.

The GUE system is all about "standardizing" ... because diving as a team revolves around the notion of "predictable behavior" ... and when everyone learns and does things the same way, it's easy to predict what your buddy's going to do.

One huge advantage is that you can then go anywhere in the world, hook up with a diver you've never met but who's been similarly trained, and dive comfortably with that person from the get-go. It's not the physical diving skills that make that possible so much as the commonality of attitude and commitment toward being a part of a functioning team.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bad choice of words, but solo diver in the sense that even if something goes wrong, they should be able to fix it without your buddy. solo=completely independent from the earlier post. Sorry.

Not being an independent buddy is just not safe... for anyone involved, because if you suck, then your buddy is essentially diving solo, so if he has a problem he's toast.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The scenarios you just mentioned, along with many others, and especially the ones that did not turn out well at all (read people died) is why I not only developed my presentation on the failure of the buddy system but included it in my book. Along with how I and frankly anyone, not just instructors, can instill proper buddy procedures in anyone willing to pay attention. Chapter 3 page 18 1st full paragraph, followed by the steps necessary to do just that on pages 21-26.

There is really no excuse for not teaching it and if taught properly to prepared divers before they go to OW no excuse for buddies to become separated. Especially during training dives!

 

[Anti-Hero]

Bad choice of words, but solo diver in the sense that even if something goes wrong, they should be able to fix it without your buddy. solo=completely independent from the earlier post. Sorry.

Not being an independent buddy is just not safe... for anyone involved, because if you suck, then your buddy is essentially diving solo, so if he has a problem he's toast.

Huh? If something goes wrong the VERY FIRST thing I'm going to do is signal the team. As Bob said, it's the foundation that ALL GUE training is built upon. If I have to resolve a problem without my "buddy" then the team has failed.

That doesn't mean my team has to fix the problem for me, while I float idly. What it means that the team is right there, aware of the issue, and ready to intervene if needed in a split second.

 

[tbone1004]

never said they shouldn't be. The last thing I want is my buddy being oblivious, followed closely by my team jumping all over me when I'm trying to fix something. I want them aware, but I want the whole team to be completely self sufficient where they don't NEED me for anything. If you are dependent on your buddy or your team, then the team has failed.

 

[Anti-Hero]

If you are dependent on your buddy or your team, then the team has failed.

So if you have a catastrophic loss of gas - who do you depend on?

If you have a medical emergency - who do you depend on?

If you have a navigational loss - Who do you consult with?


They all sound like dependencies to me...

 

[tddfleming]

never said they shouldn't be. The last thing I want is my buddy being oblivious, followed closely by my team jumping all over me when I'm trying to fix something. I want them aware, but I want the whole team to be completely self sufficient where they don't NEED me for anything. If you are dependent on your buddy or your team, then the team has failed.

I think I know what you are saying, however, if one is not dependent on their team, then is that a team? Each person within that team serves a purpose or role. Teams work together for the same outcome, whatever that may be. I do think that each person of that team should be self sufficient. Each is going to have strengths and weakness, as a unified group the team can be made stronger. You can play upon and use the strengths of some. Each person of that team will have different strength and weaknesses to play off of.

Our nav class really showed us who had the stronger nav ability. It was my daughter, so we play upon her strengths and her ability of compass use. While I am still working on mine. This was also an eye opener of team work to complete the task at hand. This past weekend in AOW there was somemore team work for search and recovery and wreck. Again some of us were better at some things and we played upon each other to get the task completed.