My observations on the buddy system

[tddfleming]

My 12 yr old daughter and I went out this past weekend to do our AOW. We have taken all our classes together and when not in class and we go out and dive at the quarry we are still always together. Kind of like Dee and Dumb.

Anyway, we are always buddys, we decend and ascend together, and check on each other throughout the dive with the OK hand sign. We are almost always within arms length of each other. If not shoulder to shoulder.

Anyways, when we were split into buddy pairs, and then given a number which was our number in line behind the inst. We were number 2 on this dive. It was the inst out in front, the guy pair in front of us, then there was another guy pair behind us. Then the DM bringing up the rear. The 2 in front of us, one had a buoyancy issue and went slowly to the surface, we kind of held back and was pointing to the surface when the inst turned around and only saw one of them. The inst asked the one still down with us where his buddy was, (with hand signs of course) his buddy had not clue and started to just keep swimming, but inst stopped him and asked again. This person had no clue his buddy was missing or cared where his buddy had gone when he noticed he was missing. This is not the first time I have seen this behavior. Saw it in my OW class, have seen it when tagging along with other classes. Have also read about it here many times on SB. There just seems to be no concept of how this system works for some and others seem to take it very serious. Why????

So as I observed this this past weekend, a thought ran through my head. I take my buddy team very serious, why, it is my daughter. I stick to her like glue and she does the same for me. We help each other out UW, if one of us has any issues like starting to ascend, the other will reach in and help. I would like to think this is how the system was designed to work. I have a personal responabilty to her and myself to keep us as safe as we can be. Would I be this serious if buddied with someone else? I would like to think so.

But what makes the other folks, not take it serious? My best guess is that there is no personal responsibility for the other person, your buddy. But I would also think there is more to this than just the responsibility of the other person. These were just to strangers that were paired together for the weekend.

I also would not allow my daughter be paired with someone from our classes, after the things that I have seen as far as the buddy system goes.

We should not be singing in our heads, "just keep swimming, Just keep swimming."

I posted here for all the new divers like myself to think about when you are next paired up with someone.

There is just some of us to take it serious and others who do not.

 

[seaducer]

If I had a diving child I would not allow them to be buddied up with anyone I didn't know.

Some people do not take diving seriously, or the buddy system. Others are overwhelmed with all the is going on around them and "forget" they have a responsibility to another person.

Like any other skill, being a buddy takes some practice and consideration, and not all are going to be good at it. It sounds like you and your buddy are doing great, but keep that in the back of your mind when travelling, if you get paired up with another they might not be the buddy you are.

 

[Anti-Hero]

Sadly the "same day same ocean" "buddy" system is widely accepted in most diving places. It sounds to me like you and your daughter are using the buddy system exactly like it was meant to be. Keep up the good work!

If you and your daughter are interested in diving systems which promote buddies / teamwork as a core foundation, you two should look into GUE or UTD classes.

On another note, I will echo the sentiments of others. If it was my child she would not dive with ANYONE I didn't know and trust implicitly.

 

[tddfleming]

Sadly the "same day same ocean" "buddy" system is widely accepted in most diving places. It sounds to me like you and your daughter are using the buddy system exactly like it was meant to be. Keep up the good work!

If you and your daughter are interested in diving systems which promote buddies / teamwork as a core foundation, you two should look into GUE or UTD classes.

On another note, I will echo the sentiments of others. If it was my child she would not dive with ANYONE I didn't know and trust implicitly.

Thanks! I am taking my Primer class this May with Bob Sherwood. She is still too young for the class. But this is the route that I/we will be taking as it fits more in line with my thinking of how I want the system to work and can sleep at night because I feel I am following the right path. While we do not have much experience at all we have found a way for us to remain together and help each other out. She has proven to be very dependable and does not just swim along without making sure I am there. I do the same. It works. We work well together UW. For our search and recovery, she was great, tied the knot w/o one issue and lifted the object first try.

 

[scarefaceDM]

Glad you are aware of your buddy - regardless if she is your daughter. That is a positive attitude to always take. Does not matter if your are related or not...be the best buddy you can be.

Let me throw a curve ball here.

Any insta-buddy - regardless of whom it is. Has a personal responsibility to the other BUDDY. Sadly many do not think that way and this is when **** can hit the fan quick. This is due to poor training, poor skills and a negative mind set.

When I get paired up with a new buddy...first rule is...have a chat and see where they are in their head. Second rule...if you are not comfortable with that Buddy, regardless....walk away. Make it known to the Dive op, inst or DM that you will not be paired up with someone you cannot trust. But be nice about it...this may happen to you. Someone not comfortable with you because they do no like you for X reason...

Glad you have a head about you and want to be a good buddy...spread that attitude around.

 

[tbone1004]

Task loading combined with environmental factors can be a large contributor to that. If you were diving up in Rawlings this weekend, it was cold and downright miserable. The buddy system is important and could mean the difference between life and death. My dive buddy and I joke around that I'm her "diving husband" and she's my "diving wife". While we do joke about this, her husband and my fiancée definitely appreciate that mentality. We jump in and help each other without thinking about it, any time she needs something or goes to look I'm always where she thinks I am. That's good. That's the way it's supposed to be. If we're cold and miserable we slow down and make sure we don't make any mistakes. Especially when we're in a cave or deep wreck...

I "care" about most of my dive buddies. If I get partnered up with random people it's different. I don't really and genuinely care about them because I don't know them, but I won't lose them and I'll still make sure I'm being a good buddy. If they do something stupid they'll get chewed out unlike my normal dive buddies and I'm rather indifferent to the whole thing, but I'm still there and won't lose them, and certainly won't keep kicking if I can't find them... That's just wrong

I dive with people that I can't trust all the time. Mainly because I trust me, and I know that there are only so many ways people can learn to be better, and a lot of that is just diving. In my head I am not in a buddy team. I am a solo diver "babysitting" the other diver. I know he is relatively unaware of me and that's fine. I won't do these dives on a boat where I'm paying to dive because that limits my ability to enjoy my dive. That's what the quarry etc is for

 

[fire_diver]

Too many divers are only concerned with THIER dive. The concept of being a buddy is both foriegn and undesireable to many.

When you are forced with an insta-buddy it is important to talk about expectations and plans before the dive. If you see the other diver ignoring what was discussed, you have to basically abandon your plans and be the good buddy to the other person. Handle as needed when back on the surface.

 

[tddfleming]

Task loading combined with environmental factors can be a large contributor to that. If you were diving up in Rawlings this weekend, it was cold and downright miserable. The buddy system is important and could mean the difference between life and death. My dive buddy and I joke around that I'm her "diving husband" and she's my "diving wife". While we do joke about this, her husband and my fiancée definitely appreciate that mentality. We jump in and help each other without thinking about it, any time she needs something or goes to look I'm always where she thinks I am. That's good. That's the way it's supposed to be. If we're cold and miserable we slow down and make sure we don't make any mistakes. Especially when we're in a cave or deep wreck...

I "care" about most of my dive buddies. If I get partnered up with random people it's different. I don't really and genuinely care about them because I don't know them, but I won't lose them and I'll still make sure I'm being a good buddy. If they do something stupid they'll get chewed out unlike my normal dive buddies and I'm rather indifferent to the whole thing, but I'm still there and won't lose them, and certainly won't keep kicking if I can't find them... That's just wrong

I dive with people that I can't trust all the time. Mainly because I trust me, and I know that there are only so many ways people can learn to be better, and a lot of that is just diving. In my head I am not in a buddy team. I am a solo diver "babysitting" the other diver. I know he is relatively unaware of me and that's fine. I won't do these dives on a boat where I'm paying to dive because that limits my ability to enjoy my dive. That's what the quarry etc is for

YES! We were at Rawlings this past weekend. Cold is an understatement. 33 on Sunday morning. Night dive Sat. was getting near my limits. My lips were a perament shade of purple this past weekend. Daughter picked this date for us, thanks child

While it was cold I kept telling her to call it when she had enough. But she stuck through it for 5 dives. She called the Nav dive as we had already got our cert for that and the inst said we did not have to do that one if we wanted.

What I was hoping for is that the newbys out there will give this some thought, and try and be a better buddy and take it serious. Also, something to be on the lookout for if paired with a stanger.

 

[Codiak]

If you see the other diver ignoring what was discussed, you have to basically abandon your plans and be the good buddy to the other person. Handle as needed when back on the surface.

No, if the buddy is ignoring the discussed plan you thumb the dive, period.
If the team isn't working together, the team isn't diving.


Since my wife doesn't dive, when we travel I am always looking for or am assigned as a pickup buddy. I've had a mixed bag of experience with buddies, pickup or not, and choose to take precautions to keep myself safe(r) with or without a buddy.

While there is a "responsibility" to a buddy, there isn't always a personal "bond" or real carrying attachment, especially where pickup buddies are concerned and this lowers the bar for risk assessments each diver makes before/during the dives.


In this case there are some interesting dynamics:
Parent / Child, the strongest of bonds, is enchancing situational awareness.
Parent / Child, have dived together and have a system worked out over time, pickup buddies don't have the benefit of this joint history and are far more likely to do stupid buddy tricks.
Class room setting is working against the Buddy obligation, after all the instructor will solve everything, right?


If you can build/instill a person situational awareness for yourself and in you child, set thumbing as a normal expectation for any reason at any time, diving can be a joy regardless what others do or don't do.

 

[tddfleming]

Glad you are aware of your buddy - regardless if she is your daughter. That is a positive attitude to always take. Does not matter if your are related or not...be the best buddy you can be.

Let me throw a curve ball here.

Any insta-buddy - regardless of whom it is. Has a personal responsibility to the other BUDDY. Sadly many do not think that way and this is when **** can hit the fan quick. This is due to poor training, poor skills and a negative mind set.When I get paired up with a new buddy...first rule is...have a chat and see where they are in their head. Second rule...if you are not comfortable with that Buddy, regardless....walk away. Make it known to the Dive op, inst or DM that you will not be paired up with someone you cannot trust. But be nice about it...this may happen to you. Someone not comfortable with you because they do no like you for X reason...

Glad you have a head about you and want to be a good buddy...spread that attitude around.

How does one change the poor training, poor skills and negative mind set? I can tell you that in our OW class, buddy was only mentioned once or twice. Dives were a cluster duck, I am not sure anyone could define buddy. They told us to buddy up but that was it. To a new person that does not mean much. I ended up learning how to be a better buddy by reading here and following what felt right and doing the right thing. It is not something I learned in class. I will also add, I still have much to learn.

It appears it may need to start in OW class. Teaching what it is and how the system works. As for the negative mindset, there may not be any hope for some.

I did a tag along with my husband OW class, different inst, same shop. Still just as bad. While at a platform, I witnesses a girl fall off the platform from another class, from what I could tell, I was the only person that gave her an OK sign to check on her. I am not sure anyone even noticed. Kind of a scary mindset.