That was tongue in cheek, right?
My New Toy
- Thread starter Southside
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There are different opinions on this. I agree with Stuart. I, personally, see no reason to take OC classes if you plan to do your dives on CC. If you plan to do both types of diving, then take both types of classes. If you want to be the best CC diver that you can be, then focus on CC. Just for comparison, you could start your CCR diving at TEC40 which is the first PADI TEC CCR course. It certifies you to 130 with 10 minutes of deco and air dil. The second course would be TEC60 which certifies you to 200 feet with normoxic (>+ 16% O2) with unlimited deco. The final course would be TEC100 which certifies you to 330 feet with hypoxic (<16% dil) with unlimited deco. These three courses are all you need to take the Se7en as far as you want to go without the need for OC TEC.
Either way, you will love that Se7en. It is a great choice.
Your local Poseidon dealer should also have the refillable canisters in stock. Salt Blue, the US distributor for Poseidon, has them.
Really? I am surprised that PADI allows a diver with no tech training at all and no CCR experience at all to go straight to CCR training that includes deco.
Is PADI part of RESA? I haven't looked at the RESA training standards in a while, but I would have guessed that RESA has requirements in line with what TDI and IANTD are doing - which is that if a diver has no CCR training and no OC tech training, they have to start on CCR with no deco. E.g. TDI Air Dil CCR (which is no deco).
I also would not be surprised if PADI is not part of RESA.
The prereqs are here: Tec 40 CCR | PADI
Yes, you can start at TEC40 with no previous CCR or deco training.
PADI is a supporting member of RESA. PADI is also a founding member of the Rebreather Training Counsel (RTC). While I am not that deep in how these relate, I believe RESA is primarily made up of the manufacturers (which is why PADI and the other training agencies ar supporting members) while RTC is primarily made up of the training agencies. Since we, as instructors, must be approved by both a training agency (in this case PADI) and a manufacturer (in this case Poseidon) I think we have to comply with both.
A summary of the PADI compliance/alignment with RTC is available here: New Standards Published by Rebreather Training Council
I know PADI is constantly evaluating their courses and I would not be surprised to see this change. However, for now, you can start CCR at TEC40.
Yes, you can start at TEC40 with no previous CCR or deco training.
PADI is a supporting member of RESA. PADI is also a founding member of the Rebreather Training Counsel (RTC). While I am not that deep in how these relate, I believe RESA is primarily made up of the manufacturers (which is why PADI and the other training agencies ar supporting members) while RTC is primarily made up of the training agencies. Since we, as instructors, must be approved by both a training agency (in this case PADI) and a manufacturer (in this case Poseidon) I think we have to comply with both.
A summary of the PADI compliance/alignment with RTC is available here: New Standards Published by Rebreather Training Council
I know PADI is constantly evaluating their courses and I would not be surprised to see this change. However, for now, you can start CCR at TEC40.
Jack Hammer
Contributor
I believe CCR tech without the matching OC skills is a generally bad idea. If you have to bailout from CCR on a tec level dive you are gonna really want those skills.
I agree, to a point. Both perspectives have solid arguments. However, we can build those OC skills in the CCR course and in conditions which more closely match the bailout requirement. If a diver is learning OC technical skills specifically to support bailout from CC, they may be learning some skills which will not directly map. For example, the OC course will not include building the muscle memory to properly vent the counter lungs on the way up. It is not a hard thing to learn, and a lot of experience in OC will not hinder the ability to vent the counter lungs, but it is a skill which will have to be modified.
If the diver wants to build solid OC skills to bail out, why not practice those skills using the same equipment in the same configuration that the diver will be using when they bail out?
Just a thought. Again, both perspectives have merit. What really matters is diving. Dive as much as you can in whatever configuration you want. Experience builds confidence and competence.
Some prerequisites to do an entry level tech course on CCR are that you should be either new to Tech or new to CCR, not both. That's as per NAUI standards, anyway. RAID Deco 40 on CCR requires you to have 30 CCR hours before you begin but no previous tec training required.
When I teach someone a CCR course for which they are not OC qualified already, I spend a chunk of additional time getting them the necessary OC skills before they get in too deep on CCR. After all, they need to do a full OC bailout from max depth as part of their final evaluation and that isn't fair if they don't have at least some decent OC training beforehand. As well as a reasonable OC skillset going into the course(s) to start with.
I do not believe there is any standardised, cookie cutter approach that works well with CCR. Luckily, within my agencies, I have a lot of latitude to customise courses to ensure best student outcomes.
When I teach someone a CCR course for which they are not OC qualified already, I spend a chunk of additional time getting them the necessary OC skills before they get in too deep on CCR. After all, they need to do a full OC bailout from max depth as part of their final evaluation and that isn't fair if they don't have at least some decent OC training beforehand. As well as a reasonable OC skillset going into the course(s) to start with.
I do not believe there is any standardised, cookie cutter approach that works well with CCR. Luckily, within my agencies, I have a lot of latitude to customise courses to ensure best student outcomes.
RainPilot: I absolutely agree that it is important to tailor the course to meet the needs, the goals, and the previous experience of each student. There is no cookie cutter approach approach that works well with every student.
I am a bit intrigued by your comment about the agencies you teach with. I am curious about how various agencies approach the latitude given to the instructor to tailor the course to meet the needs of the student. I feel that I have the required latitude within the PADI system, but I am always interested in how other agencies do things. I believe they all have some good ideas.
I am a bit intrigued by your comment about the agencies you teach with. I am curious about how various agencies approach the latitude given to the instructor to tailor the course to meet the needs of the student. I feel that I have the required latitude within the PADI system, but I am always interested in how other agencies do things. I believe they all have some good ideas.
Avoiding a thread hijack, but NAUI has always had a "freedom to teach" philosophy. That means that all standards are minimum standards, I can add anything I feel necessary as long as I meet or exceed the course standards, while remaining covered by my insurance. So, for example, if I feel that a straight OC deco dive is indicated on the CCR Tech course to solidify some skills, I can do so, even though with other agencies I would not be covered for any OC diving I do on a CCR course.
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